Re: Let's hide the bicyclists behind parked cars. What could go wrong?

On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 03:31:23 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 21:50:39 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>

On 1/12/2025 9:32 PM, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 14:10:46 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
 

On 1/12/2025 7:54 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 17:41:30 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
>

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 19:16:55 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>

On 1/11/2025 3:50 PM, cyclintom wrote:

On Fri Jan 10 18:42:07 2025 Frank Krygowski  wrote:

>
I've never said I take the lane "everywhere." I've said many, many times
that if there's enough space to safely share the lane, I do that.
>
I'm not riding anywhere now, with lots of now and temperatures below 25
Fahrenheit. But in milder weather, yes, I prefer to ride quiet streets.
But when necessary or desirable, I ride the four lane with ~30,000 cars
per day that's a quarter mile from my house. I ride city center downtown
streets. I ride country roads, including state highways. Out west, I've
ridden hundreds of miles on freeways where that was legal.

>
Frank, the problemn is that you're always careful to leave and out while implying otherwise. Do not say " I take the lane" without including "when safe".

>
I take the lane pretty much by default. I don't take the lane when the
lane is wide enough to safely share - that is, so wide that a car could
pass me giving at least three feet of clearance without moving left into
the next lane over.
>
I keep asking you and others about being approached from behind by an
8.5 foot truck (a common truck width) while riding in a 10 foot lane
(common around here) with no shoulder (also common).  I absolutely would
be in the center of the lane in that situation. There's no reasonable
alternative other than jumping off your bike - and perhaps, touching
your forehead to the ground as a sign of submission.
>
I have a legal right to the road. I use it.

>
Here, and I suspect in the U.S., we have fleets of 40 foot flat bed
trucks hauling a 40 foot, 10 wheel flat bed trailer, with two 40 ft.
shipping containers loaded, traveling about 80 KPH. One day on the
road from Bangkok to N.E. Thailand saw a measured 1 Km line of  them
(measured with speedometer) running nose to tail.
>
Of course you have a legal right to use the road so given your
statement above I'm, sure you would have no qualms about "Seizing the
Lane"  in those circumstances.

>
In general, I'd prefer not to ride on such a road if alternatives exist.
But I do regularly ride on a four lane with well over 30,000 vehicles
per day. You don't say whether the road you described had more than one
lane in the relevant direction. The nice thing about a four lane is
motorists can merge into the next lane, generally with little trouble.
I've found that riding very obviously at lane center causes them to take
notice earlier, and merge left earlier.

 
Well, I did mention the Km long line of trucks. This is the main
highway to N.E. Thailand and probably there are alternate "farm roads
that your get you there... in a day o so, as opposed to about three
hours.
 
It is a multi lane highway - 6 to 8, 10 in a few places, lanes and
posted , the outer lane for trucks, next lane slow cars, next faster
and inner really fast. I believe 100 kmh in some places.
See
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2775278/heavy-songkran-traffic-in-korat
Seize the lane?

>
It sounds and looks like a freeway. I've ridden freeways, mostly out in
the western U.S. states, when there were no alternatives.
>
That lack of alternatives generally makes bicycling on freeways legal.
If traffic was low, it could be pleasant, and my wife and kid both
preferred it because gradients were less than on smaller roads.
>
I prefer quieter roads, as I've said. But I do ride 55 mph four lanes
from time to time. I do ride lane center, and often do so even if
there's a shoulder, because shoulders gather too much flat-causing
debris. It's generally not a problem, and it's never generated even a
close call for me. But I know it scares some people. I've known people
who were terrified to ride on any four lane road, even a local one with
a 40 mph speed limit and low traffic!

>
I see many people riding multiple lane highways on the far right and
I've done it occasionally when there was no other good alternative and
traffic was light. However only a fool would ride where they blocked
high speed heavy traffic. 

I had mentioned a line of heavy trucks, one Kilometer long, traveling
perhaps 70 - 80 kph.  Can you imagine "Seizing the Lane" in front of
that lot?

Apparently,"Stupidity" is not a word in Frank's vocabulary.
--
Cheers,

John B.