Re: Montana: "Let's make stupidity mandatory!"

On 1/15/2025 10:36 PM, John B. wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 21:54:51 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
 

On 1/15/2025 9:18 PM, John B. wrote:

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On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 10:51:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>

On 1/14/2025 7:30 PM, John B. wrote:

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One thing that it is important to remember is that in a conflict
between a bicycle and a auto the auto nearly always wins :-(
There is even a poem, dating from the early 1900's:
>
       Here lies the body Of William Jay,
       Who died maintaining His right of way.
       He was in the right As he sped along,
       But he's just as dead As if he'd been wrong.

>
It's a cute little poem, but like "always pretend you're invisible," its
useless as practical advice for a bicyclist.
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A bicyclist who never used his right of way would be unable to
practically ride anywhere except on totally isolated bike paths.

>
The problem isn't whether you use a "right of way" it is what happens
if the auto, truck, whatever, doesn't see you or simply ignores your
right of way?
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I even posted reference to two women who seized the lane, as Frank
suggests.The truck apparently did every thing he could do to avoid
them but hit them. One woman and one baby killed in the collision.
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Frank's reaction? "Oh, they did it wrong."

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That's true. As I recall, they were on a motor scooter and they pulled
directly out in front of a tractor trailer. Nobody here has ever
advocated that.

 Nope, that's your interpretation. At that point in the main road a
truck would have been traveling at about 70 - 80 kph - long curve in
the main road. The motorbike drove out onto the main road, obviously
at a distance that they felt it safe to do so - just because they were
Thais, or women  doesn't mean that they were stupid. But it wasn't far
enough.

Yes. They obviously didn't do it right. You can't seriously be claiming they did it right if they were killed!

But your explanation that "Oh! They didn't do it right" seems a bit
hard hearted. Do you mean that anyone that doesn't ride exactly as you
tell them to gets run over by trucks and your only comment is "Oh they
didn't do it right"

Disputes of this type do come up from time to time in the bicycle advocacy forums: Is it ever appropriate to "blame the victims?"
I say it is appropriate to note people's mistakes, even (or especially) fatal ones. It helps other people to learn.
The lady operating the scooter in your case did make a big mistake, and she and her passenger paid for it dearly. The mistake was not riding on an 80 kph roadway. I'd bet most of us here have done that hundreds of times with perfect success. The mistake was pulling out into traffic when it wasn't clear. It's stupid to defend such a move.
Now spend some time with the educational resources I listed below. Learn how to operate a bicycle properly in traffic.

One might ask, "If doing it wrong causes your death how will you ever
learn how to do it correctly?"

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:-)  Good question! How can anyone learn to do it correctly? My, what a
puzzle!
>
Answer: For the bare basics (all most people require) you might be able
to find some instruction online. Something like this, for example:
https://www.bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred004.htm
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You might try buying and reading a copy of _Street Smarts_ by John
Allen. It's a slim volume, but it actually has more detail than most
people need. (This really isn't rocket science, John.)
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If you want videos instead of reading, you could go to
https://cyclingsavvy.org/  They have quite a bit of information
available online, both videos and well done animations.
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If you want to become much more expert, or if you need even more
guidance - say, because you're really nervous about this - you could
sign up for a real live course from Cycling Savvy. And if you're not in
the U.S., there are similar organizations in places like Britain and
Canada, and probably other countries that offer instruction courses.
Google is your friend.
>
Finally, if you really want deep learning on these topics and
techniques, you can buy a copy of _Cyclecraft_ by John Franklin. He has
editions for drive-on-the-left places like Britain, and
drive-on-the-right places like U.S. and Canada.
>
Whatever you do, don't throw up your hands and pretend its impossible.
Try to remember that there are plenty of people competently and
confidently bicycling in conditions you pretend are impossible.

--
- Frank Krygowski