Re: Montana: "Let's make stupidity mandatory!"

On 1/19/2025 5:11 PM, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 13:51:56 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
 

On 1/19/2025 1:06 PM, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 11:39:05 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
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On 1/19/2025 11:19 AM, Shadow wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 08:26:11 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
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On 1/18/2025 5:36 AM, Shadow wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 10:02:17 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
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On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 22:01:41 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
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On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 07:47:48 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
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On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 13:18:48 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
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On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 08:25:45 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
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On 1/17/2025 5:21 AM, Shadow wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 11:30:14 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
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On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 14:07:10 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
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On 1/16/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 1/16/2025 10:30 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 1/16/2025 10:00 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

>
In my opinion, the reason that humans rose to our place on the food
chain is because of our individualistic need to better ourselves and
our situation.

>
Your rabid individualism has obviously stunted your education. Don't
expect that many will value your totally uneducated opinions.
>

Interpretation varies.
>
Mr Tricycle has a point, and a very good one at that.

>
I suggest a test. Put Mr. Tricycle out in the wilderness all alone. I
predict he won't better himself or his situation. In fact, I predict he
won't survive long.
>
OTOH, human beings working cooperatively have built entire civilizations.

>
Your argument sounds so logical... until one actually work with
primitive people, the ones the trike man is talking about. And yes I
have worked with this sort of people. In one case we had to call in
the Indonesian military to stop a "war" between two villagers over who
would keep a worn out plastic tarpaulin. Hardly an example of
"cooperatively".
>
By the way, the military solution was to simplify get out of the
helicopter and immediately shoot one of the two fighters. Fight over.

>
What faction were the "military" ? Nazis?
They murdered a citizen in cold blood and didn't solve the
problem.
>
And unless that "primitive person" was a baboon, his IQ was
probably equal to, or even superior to the "military's"***. Not having
access to a decent education doesn't make you stupid, it makes you
ignorant.
[]'s
>
*** The military are notoriously stupid. Far more stupid than
the general population.

>
Well, their mission was to prevent a war and further
slaughter.

>
Sounded more like a scuffle between two men.
>

Best solution? Maybe not, but we were not the
officer in the field that day.

>
I would have given each one half of the tarpaulin. One cuts.
the other chooses. And whoever does not agree gets shot in the knee.
>

>
Military === Stuuuupid.

[]'s

>
But of course, if you are correct no one in S.America world be
speaking Spanish or Portuguese, Adolf Hitler's party would rule
Europe, the U.S. would still be a colony of G.B. and even more
examples throughout the history of mankind.

>
LOL.
I don't think our "military" had anything to do with our
independence. Our very gay prince had a hysterical fit and hollered he
didn't want to go home, and that was that.
As to Hitler, he was not a party type. He was more of a
military man. AKA Stuuuupid. Invading Russia in winter is not a good
idea....

>
Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of the Soviet Union by Nazi Germany
starting on Sunday, 22 June 1941, during World War II.
Is June winter?

>
It was outsourced to "independent defense contractors".  They
probably hired some South American paramilitary group. It's winter in
June here, must have come as a surprise when they landed in Russia
If Hitler had just spent the loans he got from American and
European bankers on Healthcare and Education he'd probably be a hero
today and Germany wouldn't be in the mess it is.
Well, I suppose he is a hero to some people.... both Bolsonaro
and Trump seem to love him.
[]'s

>
Meanwhile in the actual world, a Brasilian division
acquitted themselves very well in Italy, 1944, supporting
Mark Clark's campaign.

>
LOL. How many of them were actually military officers... IOW
career personnel?
[]'s

>
They didn't just roll up afterwards for tea and medals.
>
Brasil sent 1st Infantry, a well trained full (25,000)
division and they were very accomplished, with some notable
victories showing tenacity and valor under fire.
>
https://www.historynet.com/brazilian-soldiers-wwii/
>
“Frankly, you Brazilians are either crazy or very brave,”
one German officer told a captured Brazilian. “I never saw
anyone advance against machine guns and well-defended
positions with such disregard for life.…You are devils.”
>
"Bowing to the inevitable, Fretter-Pico agreed to
unconditionally surrender his entire command, a process that
took some 20 hours. Finally, at 6 p.m. on April 30 the
German commander presented himself to Mascarenhas,
completing the surrender. The FEB had taken almost 15,000
German and Italian prisoners, as well as more than 4,000
horses, 1,500 vehicles and 80 guns. It marked the only time
amid combat during the Italian campaign a German division
surrendered intact."
>
I did not know anything about them until reading this
excellent history recently:
>
https://www.alibris.com/The-Savage-Storm-The-Battle-for-Italy-1943-James-Holland/book/53044568?matches=37

>
<https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/For%C3%A7a_Expedicion%C3%A1ria_Brasileira>
>
ALL the Brazilian soldiers were drafted, and received very
little training and no salaries. Command was conceded to the US, our
soldiers took their orders directly from them, our "official" Officers
preferred to stay home. They did go to receive medals  for "bravery"
after the fighting had stopped.....
>
Of the 26.000 soldiers sent over, 2000 died, and > 10.000 were
mutilated. No officers died in Europe(a couple died joyriding aircraft
in Brazil and another couple using ships for tourism off the African
coast but none were in combat).
>
If your book is good, look up the casualties amongst Brazilian
officers.
[]'s
>
PS The soldiers that were incapacitated and otherwise injured
during the war FINALLY got compensation and got pensions in 1988. Our
armed forced did not consider them to be worthy. Even funnier, the
armed forces forced congress to extend that pension to the "officers"
that stayed in Brazil during the war and were too scared to go.
It's not their fault they had evanescent bone spurs on their
heels....

>
Well, I have no opinion about most of that; I'll take your
word for it especially regarding domestic policies/events.
>
Two Brasilian commanders are cited in the historynet link:
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Brig. Gen. Euclydes Zenóbio da Costa went into the front
lines near Pisa...captured a German communications center,
forcing the enemy to abandon a strategic position on Monte
Prano."
>
>
  Maj. Gen. João Baptista Mascarenhas de Moraes was the only
Allied commander (USA, Canada, Britain and Australia) to
force a full German division's surrender in the hard-fought
two years of the Italian campaign.
>
I only saw mention of the EFB 1st Infantry in Savage Storm;
I researched their service record separately.
>
Although initially inclined to neutrality, "From February to
August 1942, Germany sank 20 Brazilian ships and this led,
on 22 August of the same year, to the Brazil's declaration
of war against Germany, Italy and Japan."
>
More, including officers and BR ships by name here:
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https://en.difesaonline.it/news-forze-armate/storia/la-for%C3%A7a-expedicionaria-brasileira-italia-durante-la-seconda-guerra
>
Aside from whatever issues, yours were was the only South
American unit in WWII, they did serve well and are mostly
forgotten to history:
>
https://occupieditaly.org/en/lighting-the-cobras-pipe-the-forgotten-team-at-the-heart-of-the-wartime-brazilian-american-alliance-1942-1945/

  I was obviously joking when I said that Brazilian mercenaries
were outsourced by Hitler for the invasion of Russia and were beaten
because they arrived 6 months late. But never underestimate the
stupidity of Brazilian Military.
 <https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pracinhas>
 //
Outro despreparo do Governo brasileiro foi enviar os soldados com
uniformes que não os protegiam do frio do inverno europeu, um erro
provavelmente devido ao fato de que era verão no Hemisfério Sul. Isso
fez com que os soldados tivessem que usar jornais para se protegerem
do frio intenso. //
  Our military sent the soldiers in December using summer
clothes, because it was summer in Brazil. The soldiers had to
improvise by using newspaper and hay to stuff their uniforms so they
wouldn't freeze. But they could barely walk because of the stuffing...
 //A cor dos uniformes brasileiros era verde oliva ligeiramente claro,
o que confundia com os utilizados pelos alemães.//
  Also, Getulio Vargas (who was a fascist who backed Hitler but
ended up giving into American bribes) sent them with GERMAN UNIFORMS.
So they were shot by the allies AND the Germans, In the end they
accepted using American uniforms. They were still shot by Germans, but
death by "friendly fire" diminished. A bit.
  Also ... Brazil sent no food. They had to survive off favors
from the allies (and sometimes from Germans).
  The two Generals you mentioned (Euclides and Mascarenhas de
Moraes) did see some battles close up. Both gunned down thousands of
unarmed peasants here in Brazil for political reasons.
They did not, however go anywhere near the front line in
Europe. The enemy had guns there. Far too dangerous.
[]'s
 

Again I can't comment on domestic Brasil issues.
Whatever his other sins, Maj. Gen. João Baptista Mascarenhas de Moraes remains the only Allied commander to both defeat a German division and accept the German commander's surrender.
That's not nothing.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971