Re: Getting old is not for sissies

Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 3/3/2025 10:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On 3/2/2025 7:55 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On 3/2/2025 7:17 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On 3/1/2025 12:53 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

 
I'm puzzled by the video's advice to avoid pulling up on the pedals "as
it's bad technique." I'm pretty sure I do pull up when jumping the bike.
What's bad about it?
 
And more on that video. In slow motion as they showed, the physics is
pretty obvious. The rider gets his body mass moving upwards, then
essentially pulls the bike up with him. That's where I think I pull up
using the pedals.
 

In theory it’s better to have the bike rider spring up, than being pulled
up by foot attachments also slight risk of unclipping.

 
I'm not sure I understand your phrasing. On my road bikes, I "spring up"
- that is, jump my body upward. I then pull upwards with both hands and
feet. Since I use toe clips instead of clipless, I don't think I've ever
unclipped while doing that.
 

 

What's less obvious, I think, is how a skateboarder with zero foot
attachment can bunny hop a skateboard. It's interesting to think about.
 
 

Lot of folks who jump is a focus do run flats so aren’t pulling up.

 
I run flat pedals on my mountain bike and my about-town 3 speed. Yes, I
can jump them, but not as high. On the other bikes, I think the toe
clips help.
 

I’d refer you to the Don who is a ex downhill racer, and rather technical,
to explain why!
 
<https://youtu.be/F7LO1qnm0Xs?si=0p3ONupQJCKONsR4>
 
But certainly all of the sane advice for bunny hops are not to being
pulling up with your feet, it can be done but it’s poor technique and will
limit how much you can do.
 

As with the skateboard "ollie" (linked in another post) getting the
rider's mass up high is easy and obvious, by jumping. Making the bike or
skateboard levitate is what's tricky.
 
I think the physics goes this way: You lift the front of the machine,
raising the machine's center of mass. On the bike, that's by pulling up
on the handlebars. On the board, that's by kicking down on the tail.
 
Once the machine center of mass is elevated, then rotate the machine
about its center of mass. That's  by pushing down on the handlebars or
by kicking down on the nose of the board.
 
That rotational action about the center of mass is what causes the rear
wheel(s) to lift into the air.
 
 

You shouldn’t be lifting either the bar or pedals, it’s about as with all
MTBing weight positions and movement and timing ie push hips back so your
arse is almost brushing the rear tyres.
 
And the front will come up, scooping the weight forward to drop the front
down and the rear up.

 
I can accept that the extreme body motions he's describing are needed to
get more than, say, a foot into the air. They may or may not have helped
the guys who's crashes he shows from 5:34 - 5:45 in the video.
 
And as your man says at 5:49 "... well, it does work, it's not as good."

 

 
I'm not trying for "big air," as they say. I'm on a road bike, and my
objective has been to clear big potholes, railroad tracks or speed
bumps. For that I don't think there's a problem with moving one's body
straight up then pulling the bike up using handlebars and pedal
attachments.

 
Kinda depends on your aim, if one wants to learn how to bunny hop for what
ever reason, it’s a better form and more reliable granted needs practice,
your method is cheap and dirty hence folks use it, but it inherently has
limits.

 
I submit Peter Sagan at about 0:15 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viszek1LlpA
 

I’d suggest he probably did more than just pull up, it’s fast ...

 
It helps to slow it down to half speed or slower as you view it.
 

... but looks
like he compresses and then springs up, he’s also someone with some MTB
background and likes to throw the bike about.
 
Ie that doesn’t look like just a cheap and dirty pull on the bars.

 
Reread above, please. What I said is still there:
 
"On my road bikes, I "spring up"- that is, jump my body upward. I then
pull upwards with both hands and feet. Since I use toe clips instead of
clipless, I don't think I've ever unclipped while doing that."
 
If I want to jump a bit higher and if I have time, I think I do
"compress" a bit before I spring up.
 
 

He clearly does compress ie not at all clear that he’s pulling up much if
anything, but it’ much like the Don’s advice movement and timing that is
doing this.
 
Which is different to what you’re describing.

 
I'm not so sure about that, but it's really hard to tell without a good
slo-mo breakdown. It looks to me like he might have actually pitched the
front of the bike down before he crossed the median, but my
bunny-hopping skills are notoriously bad.

It’s smooth and well skilled, as with the reply to Frank I just can’t see a
man of his talent using such a poor technique when he clearly has the
talent and knowledge, that it’s difficult to see exactly what he’s doing
isn’t particularly surprising.

I also don’t use full bunny hops as well don’t need them, though larger
kerb rolling on the gravel bike is possibly one use case, MTB just roll on
over, and in general I lighten/weight wheels etc to get over stuff than
lifting a wheel over.

 

 
I’d also suggest that it’s a bold move to compare to Sagan who while like
most isn’t perfect he definitely fluffed up the XC Olympics few years back,
by being too aggressive aka didn’t nurse the tyres over the technical bits,
but he’s definitely is rather God tier in terms of bike handling.

 
Which brings this to mind
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM9Eh2uQ7Ek
 
For me though, one of the more impressive displays was Andre Tchmil
winning the '94 Paris Roubaix. He won in a solo breakaway, at one point
he approached a small-ish roundabout where he simple rode straight
across it. It was so completely effortless and smooth - mind you, this
was over 5 hours into the race in off/on rainy conditions after fighting
the dozens of kilometers of mud covered cobbles.
 

Done well it’s just ridiculous smooth! Most mortals need to slow and well
hop up/down stuff.

Fortunately not that many people are so talented!

I dug around a bit and found an old video.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xci1GIwLNoo
 
The stunt is at 1:08:25. Even Phil Ligget was impressed with the move.
FWIW - it's worth watching a few bits earlier in the video where some
cobbled sections are covered in 2 inches of mud.
 
 

Roger Merriman