Re: Electric bicycles, social policy & culture

Am Mon, 14 Apr 2025 11:37:04 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:

On 4/14/2025 2:52 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:

Am Thu, 10 Apr 2025 12:40:59 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
 

On 4/10/2025 12:09 PM, AMuzi wrote:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/are-e-bikes-a-godsend-or-the-road-to-
perdition-an-amish-community-is-torn/ar-AA1CAple

>
A couple remarks:

...
 

Holmes County, Ohio is quite hilly. We did a weekend there, riding
tandems with our best friends. One little side road marked the first
time we ever had to dismount and walk a hill despite our tandem's low
gearing. I can see why the Amish there would be motivated to accept
electric assist.

 
Sure. Who wouldn't?   But how many people of those who switched from a
bicycle to a motorized bike during the last decade are Amish people?
Wikipedia tells me that only 0.12% of the US population are Amish, so as
a first guess I'd expect > 99% of e-bike users not to be Amish.

>
I think the Amish are always going to be a tiny, tiny percentage of
almost any phenomenon. It's sort of the point of their chosen existence,
to be a people apart from the norm.

So a talk about Amish using e-bikes is even less relevant for the
general population of the US. Hardly any US citizen who gets on an
e-bike demonstrates their intention to move closer to Amish culture.

>

Finally, while I'll never be Amish, I can admire that a culture has
priorities other than "How much shit can we buy before we die?"
Community is very important to the Amish, and community is a good thing.

 
But switching from bicycles to motorized bikes isn't a good thing in
general, especially not in a country known for their obesity crisis.
 
IMO, this is marketing for a motorized vehicle whose design mainly
consists of giving riders the illusion that they are riding a bicycle.

>
I understand your point. But speaking of "people apart": That's you and
me. At least in the U.S., but also in most other countries, avid
cyclists are a relatively rare breed. In general, people who build
purposeful exertion into their lifestyle are quite uncommon.

Cyclists are not a rare breed in Germany or, with some exceptions, in
Europe. Of course, bicycles are somewhat limited by time constraints, so
on often has to switch to other means of transportation, such as buses,
regional or long-distance trains.

According to a lobby organization of the German bicycle industry, the
number of non-motorized bicycles in 2023 was 73 million, plus 11 million
25 km/h E-bikes. That's 84 mn combined, about as many as Germany has
inhabitants of all ages.

<https://fahrradwirtschaft.de/fahrradbestand-und-nutzung/>
<https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Current-Population/_node.html>

>
Yes, there are certain locations where geographic factors - natural or
built - make daily exertion more common.

In Germany, the majority of people live in cities/towns that aren't
small.

"At the end of 2023, 27.4 million people (32.4 %) in Germany lived in
large cities and 23.3 million (27.6 %) in medium-sized cities."

Tranlated from
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Gro%C3%9F-_und_Mittelst%C3%A4dte_in_Deutschland>

That's 60 percent combined. Medium-sized cities defined as having 20,000
or more inhabitants. 

I'm thinking of dense towns
with mixed zoning, where one can still find a grocery shop and a
workplace within walking distance of most homes.

For this discussion, bicycling distance seems to be the better measure.

Today I needed a replacement part for a fitting in one of our bathrooms.
While we have twolarge grocery stores and two bakeries in easy walking
distance (<500 m), the nearest store having that specific part is a
large chain DIY and home improvement market, a bit more than two
kilometres from home by bike. My wife suggested to use the opportunity
to buy a plant and some seeds, so I did.

I anticipation of perhaps having to carry some heavy stuff, I took the
clumsy dutch bike, for its old but convenient Ortlieb bags.
<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20250422/1130.jpg>

The somewhat slow ride took seven minutes and a few seconds. A walk
would have taken ~24 minutes or more. 

An e-bike would not have made it significantly faster or more
comfortable.   I wouldn't have wanted to transport a washing machine
like that, of course. But I'm not Amish, either.

<https://maps.app.goo.gl/7mBugPwLDQmN6yk47>

But ISTM the trend in
the "westernized" world is to make those places less and less common.

Amazon has destroyed many specialty stores in my home town, but grocery
stores, bakeries and DIY stores are not yet among them.

And even in "developing" countries, as soon as a person can afford
something with a motor, they want to buy it to make getting around easier.

Up to a point. 

E-bikes have been much easier to sell to Germans by making people
believe that they can do something for their fitness with these E-bikes.
The fact that these have been legally exempted from liability insurance
by putting them on the same legal footing as real bicycles has
contributed to this. People are happy to spend a lot of money
(€2000-4000) to save a little money (€40-50 per year).

>
Those of us who push ourselves to use muscle power are similar to the
Amish.

I disagree. 

I preferred to use a light and expensive high-tech bike to get to work
faster or to explore the countryside in my free time than to buy a
cheaper car so that I could use the savings to pay the gym fees.  I was
able to save the time and money until I retired because of cycling.

We impose voluntary restrictions on ourselves, for what we
perceive as our own good and the good of the community.

Yes, of course.  I don't stuff my stomach with junk food until I burst
either, without turning that rational decision into a religion.

We'll always be
unusual, unless the built environment changes greatly.

A sensible behaviour doesn't make a cult or a religion. Regardless of
whether it is frequent or unusual.


--
Bicycle helmets are the Bach flower remedies of traffic