Re: Helping a tourist with STI problems

Am Thu, 22 May 2025 15:17:15 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:

On 5/22/2025 11:29 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:

Am Wed, 21 May 2025 20:04:08 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
 

... Spraying the guts thoroughly with lubricant has been the only thing I've
ever done to fix STI. Eventually, doing that enabled him to get the
levers working again and allowed the repair to complete. As a result of
all this, the young guy is going to do an extra overnight here.
>
To me, it's justification for my preference for bar end shifters for
touring. I prefer simple devices with only visible problems.

 
Then you should not use modern cars or cell phones.

>
:-)  I'm very aware that my choice of an electric car was, for me, very
unusual. It was based on environmental guilt, due to the large amount of
driving I now have to do.

It depended on personal circumstances, that is. 

Same with our choice not to replace our 25 years old and rarely used
family car by an overpowered, heavy and expensive electric car that even
wouldn't fit our needs. 

Incidentally, a new car with a internal combustion engine wouldn't make
much difference in terms of repairability either. ICE powered cars
younger than say 30 years have lots of possible defects that aren't
visible or repairable by common folks, too. I fixed various defects on
my first car, an used and very broken 30 HP VW beetle. But that was
then. The only repairs I did myself over the last 20 years on the
current car where replacing the battery, changing wipers and fixing a
broken cable. I wouldn't touch anything on a current car, as even
changing the battery can be difficult. 

>
If there were a simple alternative to a cell phone, I'd certainly
consider it - but for many electronic devices, there is no simple
alternative that's anywhere near as useful.

The same goes for the electronic, wireless shifting on the two bikes I
built.  It was easier to build such a bike with these components, the
bike is easier to repair, more functional and easier to use than a
purely mechanical counterpart.

I dislike many features of modern cellphones, starting with the almost
complete dependency on a touchscreen.  A cell phone that doesn't have a
changeable battery is a bad joke, when a wireless rear derailleur with a
removeable battery works without problems even in rain and dirt.

Smart phones, radios,
televisions (although I watch very, very little) etc. can't be replaced
by simple mechanical devices.

None of the bicycles you use are produced using simple mechanical tools,
either. You wouldn't be able to make a ball bearing, a Bowden cable or a
bicycle tire in your workshop. These mechanical devices are everything
but simple. 

>
Luckily, STI can be replaced by bar end or other simple shifters. I
prefer the ruggedness, adaptability and repairability to the slightly
greater convenience of STI.

In actual fact, STI ("Shimano Total Integration") is a good example of a
case where a purely mechanical solution got too far and reached its
limit.  So you can go back and live with a slightly less convenient
solution, or you can go forward, switching to a mechatronic solution
that replaces a barely functional rube goldberg device with a simpler
mechatronic solution that is both more robust and offers more
convenience.  The decision should depend on what the bike is being used
for. Your tourist probably would have been better of with bar end
shifters or just with a little bit of learning about how to maintain and
adjust a STI lever. Or by having the inner cable replaced by a bicycle
dealer every two years. Depending on the specific model and model year
of a Shimano STI lever, it's difficult to do this using only Shimano's
documentation. I was bitten by that myself, had to buy a somewhat
expensive replacement lever in a hurry. Live and learn.

>

I too liked the bar end shifter on the touring bike I got in nineties of
the last century, even after getting a nasty stich from a broken wire
from the inner cable, while shifting.  Does that count as a visible
problem? :-O

>
:-) That's a feature, not a bug! When that first strand of wire breaks
and sticks out, it's how the system tells you that its time to replace
your shift cable.

Of course it is, you won't notice that defect on a STI lever early
enough*) and unfortuately, there is a good chance that the broken wire
curls up inside the lever, blocking the ratchet mechanism and making it
difficult to even remove the broken cable. I my case, removing the inner
cable from outside the lever in order to be able to operate the ratchet
for unwinding the curled wire seems to have damaged a tiny tension
spring inside the mechanism, making it partially inoperable.  So I just
let a shop install a new lever, two days before our yearly vacation.

That spring doesn't even have a separate part number, probably because
replacing that spring needs complete disassembly of the ratchet
mechanism.  Im not even sure that I have all the tools to reassembe it.
Paying a shop most probably would be more expensive than just buying a
new lever. I only learned about the specifics of the defect because I
disassembled the defective lever after our vacation.

>

 From a consumers point of view, there isn't much difference between a
Tiagra STI lever and a SRAM eTap AXS Shift/Brake Lever, he or she can't
repair either one. Nor can I.  But the former component is a lot more
complicated than the latter.  A STI lever, whether Tiagra, 105 or
Ultegra contains a complicated ratchet mechanism inside, comparable to a
mechanical clock, while the latter one is a simple switch combined with
some electronics. Robust near distance communication by wire or over the
air is essentially a solved problem.

>
I don't have any experience nor any data on the reliability of
e-shifting or wireless shifting.

I don't have, either, but I have enough experience with the limited
reliabilty of purely mechanical shifting in order to prefer the
electronic variants, after having heavily used the wireless variant from
SRAM for almost two years, now. 

<https://roadbikeaction.com/first-ride-sram-red-etap-electronic-wireless-drivetrain/>

I am not aware of any independent verification of the claims made in the
linked article. On the other hand, I have no reason to believe that the
protocol used is less reliable than say, what wireless keybords or
pointing devices use. Especially when the actual protocol, Airea, is
hardened for the specific use case.  Mechanical problems still exist -
shifting from 2 to 3 on the 10-52t cassette needs perfect microstep
adjustment in order to be noiseless, but I haven't noticed a single case
of the derailleur not immediately acting on using a lever.

I have had problems with the wireless
cyclometer on my Bike Friday - signal failure in temperatures below 40F
= 5 C), technical details on request - but to me, inability to shift
gears is much more of a problem than inability to see my speed.

Wireless cyclometers are mostly inexpensive stuff nobody cares about. :)
Personally, after an injury in 2011 I avoided riding in rain or really
cold weather, even more so after another injury in 2024. So I personally
don't care anymore and don't have experience with using my SRAM eTap
componentes with temperatures below say 7 C.

But SRAM seems to care 

| Can SRAM RED eTap 2x11 components withstand a rapid
| temperature change from cold to hot, and vice versa?
|
| We have tested 11-speed SRAM RED eTap components
| extensively in our climate chamber, in temperature ranges
| from 120 degrees F (+50°C) to -20 degrees F (-30°C). Rapid
| temperature changes, such as moving from a
| climate-controlled room to outdoors and vice versa, will not
| negatively affect the performance of SRAM components.

<https://support.sram.com/hc/en-us/articles/6773993079579-Can-SRAM-RED-eTap-2x11-components-withstand-a-rapid-temperature-change-from-cold-to-hot-and-vice-versa>

>

Of course we can design and build bicycles that a village blacksmith can
repair. Some people do. Who needs more than two gears? You don't need a
shifting device for only two gears. And so on.

>
Depending on one's objective. This guy had set his derailleur so his
chain was on a middle cog. Shifting in front would have given him two
speeds. I agree with him that would not be the way to ride to Los Angeles.

I was thinking of a fixed/fixed rear hub, like the ones sold here
<https://www.profileracing.com/product/track-fixedfixed-rear-hub/>

13/20 allows a 1:1.5 ratio, similar to what the first Torpedo 3-speed
hubs from Fichtel&Sachs had.  This ratio is probably not good enough for
this trip either.

*) Perhaps you would. I learned that having had to adjust the cable a
little bit without a recognizeable reason might have been an early
indication of a broken wire. That's exactly what I had noticed a while
before, without drawing the corresponding conclusion.

--
Thank you for observing all safety precautions