Re: [Starburst Magazine] Next Edition of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Changes Everything

On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 15:36:35 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 11:23:45 +0200, Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

On 6/19/2024 11:22 AM, Kyonshi wrote:

[...]

Everything I've read about the new books is that it's basically "AD&D
2nd Edition" for D&D 5th Edition.
 
Which mathematically makes it D&D 7th Edition, not 6th. ;-)

Early Dungeons & Dragons (DD) creators/designers/writers through 1990s
didn't do job of numbering editions like more professional language/
academic writers do.  There were five standard DD editions before Advanced
DD (ADD) second edition (2nd ed., 2E, ADD2.  See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editions_of_Dungeons_&_Dragons ).  If you
count those, not just ADD, not half/revised editions, any future 6E (if
not '5.5E') will (in literary history) be about 9E.  Original 1E was 1974;
2E was 1977; 3E was 1981; 4E was 1983; 5E was 1991.
 

Which, you know, being the rare /fan/ of 2nd Edition AD&D (I can
calculate THAC0 in my head! ;-), sounds pretty cool to me. While not
without its flaws, 2nd Edition made a /much/ better read -and
introduction to the game- than the original books. Not quite up to the
standard of the Mentzer books, certainly, but a much needed
clarification and consolidation of the rules. It wouldn't be a terrible
thing of these new books follow suit.

 
I like ADD2 (and all previous editions) many ways and dislike a few.  I
liked everything through ADD2 was backwards-compatible with all previous 
with minor adjustments (armour class (AC), etc.), like I read you can play
a standard DD elf as ADD class similar (not same) to ADD fighter/magician
elf, but you get experience (XP)/levels (so hit points (HP) and spells)
different rates, so progress slightly quicker for levels but the other 
does slower yet also has some advantages (I forgot details).

What I disliked about ADD2 is it's when rules removals started which were
exacerbated in DD so-called '3E' (6E in more accuracy/history).  ADD2
removed monks (and other things) and a large amount of well-written ADD1
Dungeon Masters' Guide (DMG) such as dungeon generation and just tons of 
neat stuff... I'd still use an ADD2 DMG, which is somewhat good but also
somewhat simplistic/small/watered-down, so I'd use comprehensive/
marvellous ADD1 DMG simultaneously.  I don't know that removal of classes
was worth adding skills on top of ADD1 professions (most people don't
become experts in more than one thing).  Nevertheless, game groups I was
in, or ran, mostly used Basic & Expert & Companion & Master & (almost)
Immortals (BECMI) or (combined) ADD1&2.

DD so-called '3E' (6E) took removals to ludicrous level by removing most
skills, and eventually adding idiotic videogame-derived things like
'feats', and lost backwards-compatibility of all previous editions from 1E
through ADD2.  That's part why I will never play DD so-called '3E' (6E).

I heard so-called 5E (8E) put some sense back in, yet retained videogame-
derived things like feats.  In comparison/contrast to chess, DD so-called
'3E' (6E) & '4E' (7E) & '5E' (8E) are like chess variants with different
rules/pieces/boards, but not standard chess.  Original DD through ADD2
already had 99% good rules.  Only thing I heard DD so-called '3E' (6E) had
that was neat is splitting ability scores into two sub-scores that make
sense, which is fun but nonessential.  Standard DD could be perfect adding
races as well as classes, and ADD2 could be perfect by omitting removals,
and using DD4&5 (BECMI, Rules Cyclopedia) weapon skills, and using ability
sub-scores (I read some older game designers had been  working on
alternative ADD2 & maybe 'ADD3').  Since ADD2 (though ADD2.5 was good) we
really haven't needed new editions/variants--little benefit.

Maybe I saw more of interest in 'retroactive clones' (retro-clones) than
everything from DD so-called '3E' (6E) to now.  New editions after ADD1
(due to businessmen/corporatist/suit takeover of TSR) were largely about
profit, though despite that, I have fond memories of playing ADD2 in
1990s.  People who prefer Dave Arneson (first DD creator/father/writer 
before Gary Gygax) might say same about ADD1 (businessman takeover meant
to disenfranchise Dave Arneson) and have a point, but there's much good
stuff ADD added most roleplaying games (RPGs) couldn't do without.

Heck, I might even give it a try if they make it so armor class goes
down as it gets better. ;-)

Yes: THAC0 is more fun.