Re: Land of the Lost and DnD

On 8/26/2024 7:41 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Sun, 25 Aug 2024 22:20:01 +0200, Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
 

My son got really into Land of the Lost (1974) despite it's atrocious
greenscreen effects. At least the claymation is actually decent.
Funnily enough the series shapes up to be much more well-written than I
remember from my childhood. I think the German dub I watched it with
might have had something to do with that.
>
I wonder how much it shaped fantasy roleplaying as a hobby, because it
came out at exactly the right time, just around the time Dungeons and
Dragons came out, and it has all the proper tropes of a weird
scifi-fantasy game: There's a weird pocket dimension of lizard people,
apemen, dinosaurs, and aliens. There's a lost city with an eldritch god
lurking in the tunnels below. There's a psionic lizard
sorcerer/scientist, weird artifacts, yetis, unicorns, and confederate
soldiers hiding in caves.
>
There's a subgame of figuring out useful combinations of crystals to
create effects. (although the way they keep forgetting combinations they
already used until the next episode is a bit stupid)
>
It feels like someone just threw everything at the wall and looked what
stuck, which likely is exactly like the series came to be. One just has
to look at who actually wrote the series and the conclusion they just
raided a local science fiction convention for writers: Walter Koenig,
Larry Niven, Ben Bova, Norman Spinrad,... There was some A-list science
fiction talent involved in writing this, and the worldbuilding of the
first two seasons is quite amazing. Less so for the third one where one
of the main actors got replaced and they forgot how some of the
established laws of the world actually worked.
>
It occurs to me that this is one of those series that definitely shaped
the way people played the game, but which wouldn't have taken into
account for e.g. Appendix N because it was out of Gygax' own experience.
But Arneson said the whole idea of the first fantasy campaign came about
with a bunch of old horror movies, and the whole idea of the monk as a
class was due to the success of the Carradine Kung Fu series.
>
It might be interesting to see what stuff did actually shape the hobby
back then

 The old D&D module "X1 Isle of Dread" always seemed to owe a lot of
its tone and ideas to the "Land of the Lost" show, even if the module
was set on an island (obviously, X1 also takes from old monster movies
too; Monster Island, anyone?). But both early D&D and Land of the Lost
stole liberally from pulp adventures, even if it often didn't make for
a cohesive whole. Both often felt very experimental, filled with a lot
of 'wouldn't it be neat if...' moments that were fun to play (or
watch) so long as you didn't think too much about it.

Oh yeah, Land of the Lost definitely is full of pulp adventure tropes. But it's the interesting way this all got mixed together which makes it interesting.

 Later D&D (and fantasy in general) stepped away from this style,
focusing on stronger world-building, better characters and generally a
more epic feel overall. Like television shows, there was a growing
interest in longer, better structured stories over stand-alone
episodes. The silliness of the old modules (and shows like "Land of
the Lost") was seen as too childlike; something for young kids.

I think it lost a lot of charm when it stepped away from it, and never really got it back. Even the development of the OSR later on never really caught up with the potential weirdness that could have been a possibility (because those were all written by adults remembering their childhood and putting way too much sex and violence into them)

 Overall, I prefer the later adventures over the adventure-pulp that
was mainstream D&D in the 70s and early 80s. Still, I recognize that's
a personal preference, and I'm not condemning anyone who likes the
'classic' style (I mean, that's pretty much what "Dungeon Crawl
Classic" has built its brand around, so obviously there's still an
audience). Nor am I entirely opposed to playing that sort of game
(with moderation). It's almost tongue-in-cheek lightness adds a
certain verve to the game that is too often missing in more epic
quests.
 

I prefer the tongue-in-cheek lightness. The more epic adventures are often too heavy-handed to make for good play in my experience. They want stuff to be all epic and amazing, but in the end you are dependent on the writer, and if that person doesn't know how epic works, it won't be.