Re: jewish emancipation also means emancipation from ancient rituals

On 12/10/2024 4:32 AM, Zionazi wrote:

First of all I‘d like to Point out that I haven‘t Seen anything
particularly Worrying in Most of orthodox or reform Judaism except for
„circumcision“ (which is a euphemism for male genital mutilation — Note
that I consider female genital mutilation (as practiced by many Muslims
— even secretly in the West ;) ) quite a Bit more disturbing.

As one might, since it is a much more serious procedure (in more ways than one).  Things are often not black and white. This is wrong and that is not wrong, but there is a continuum between the extremes and each person (or together, as a society) has to decide where the line is.
I also

don‘t consider circumcised penises as disgusting.).
 

I have dark hair (well, gray now).  I don't consider blondes to be disgusting, so we are even.

Sure I don’t think it‘s particularly good how Women are treated in some
orthodox circles, but they arent hated and treated as subhumans - and
the Women themselves seem to feel good about their lives. But ofc… some
more emancipation here would be welcomed by me (think about Einat Wilf —
an emancipated Jewress, free from things Holding her back from
developing her Potential).
 

If you want to be upset about something, why not consider sex trafficking, drug cartels, genocide, etc. and leave the Jews alone?

In some ways I also feel that Hitler pushed Jews back into becoming more
orthodox (a way of coping and also from a jewish Perspective the Shoah
probably made Jews believe even more in the Torah.

I have read more than once (I can't provide a reference offhand) that, contrary to what many believe, observant Jews who survived the Shoah, mostly remained observant ("Its a miracle that I survived") and secular Jews who survived tended to remain secular ("The can't be a God who would let this happen."
You See some Insane

orthodox Jews argue that this was god‘s will…

On the Orthodox assumption that God is omnipotent and omniscient, anything that happens is effectively "God's will."  It can hardly be otherwise.  Regarding God's third attribute, benevolence, a tragedy must be "good," but we can hardly always, or even often, know why it was "good, " or why is was part of God's plan.  Of course, if you tell people who haven't thought of these things that the Shoah was good, they will rightly be unimaginably offended and think you are a moron, or worse.  Regarding rabbis who seem to routinely explain the reason for eveything that happens, I think that they are outside the mainstream on this. Does this mean a good Jew doesn't grieve if they spouse or child dies?  You tell me.
  because Jews have strayed

Away from the Torah; just as Maimonides argued that God was punishing
Jews by hurling them into the midst of the arabs: „ Remember, my
co-religionists, that on account of the vast number of our sins, God has
hurled us in the midst of this people, the Arabs, who have persecuted us
severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us,
as Scripture has forewarned us, "Our enemies themselves shall judge us"
(Deuteronomy 32:31). Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase and hate
us as much as they.“.

 https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Yemen/Complete#
 So You have Maimonides blaming Jews - lol - for how they were treated by
the arabs… so because Jews werent following the Torah god punished them
lol? Do they believe this was justified? Time to confront god (Like
Abraham did wrt Sodom and Gomorrha)… confronting god is jewish yo…
 moishe Postone said the following:
 „ They not only succeeded in murdering six million Jewish children,
women, and men. They succeeded in destroying a culture—a very old
culture—that of European Jewry. It was a culture characterized by a
tradition incorporating a complicated tension of particularity and
universality. This internal tension was duplicated as an external one,
characterizing the relation of the Jews with their Christian
surroundings. The Jews were never fully a part of the larger societies
in which they lived nor were they ever fully apart from those societies.
The results were frequently disastrous for the Jews. Sometimes they were
very fruitful. That field of tension became sedimented in most
individual Jews following the emancipation. The ultimate resolution of
this tension between the particular and the universal is, in the Jewish
tradition, a function of time, of history—the coming of the Messiah.
Perhaps, however, in the face of secularization and assimilation,
European Jewry would have given up that tension. Perhaps that culture
would have gradually disappeared as a living tradition, before the
resolution of the particular and the universal had been realized. This
question will never be answered.“
>

More likely, absent antisemitism, liberal Judaism would have disappeared, but Orthdoxy would persist, though perhaps in smaller numbers.  It is said that only 1/5 of the Egyptian Hebews actually left Egypt - that the other 4/5 were hopelessly irredeemable. In "Why be Jewish," by Meir Kahane, he describes and incident where to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Reform Temple Israel, they were going to invite descendants of the founding families, but found none who identified as Jewish. He considered liberal Judaism to be a way station out of Judaism.

https://libcom.org/article/anti-semitism-and-national-socialism-moishe- postone
 If the Germans hadnt gone nuts, the Jews might have emancipated
themselves from Religion with time… with Hitler they got pushed back
into it in some ways…

  Not clear at all, but it is said that the Jews didn't make the Sabbath. Rather the Sabbath made the Jews.