Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective

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Sujet : Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective
De : john.harshman (at) *nospam* gmail.com (John Harshman)
Groupes : sci.anthropology.paleo sci.bio.paleontology
Date : 05. Aug 2024, 16:57:41
Autres entêtes
Message-ID : <nLqdnQY1yfboay37nZ2dnZfqlJydnZ2d@giganews.com>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 8/5/24 8:19 AM, Pandora wrote:
Op 05-08-2024 om 16:39 schreef John Harshman:
 
On 8/5/24 7:19 AM, Pandora wrote:
Op 04-08-2024 om 21:19 schreef JTEM:
>
  Pandora wrote:
>
Actually, there's more than one individual of this taxon, from three different localities (TM 247, TM 266 and TM 292). This additional material was announced in Nature in 2005:
>
Where are those localities?  I just did an exhaustive 30 second search
and could only find an actual location associated with 266.
>
And, yes, I did search longer than 30 seconds but it wouldn't have been
nearly as funny if I offered a better time estimate...
>
If it doesn't exceed your attention span you can read the paper at:
>
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7920249
>
Anyway, the three Sahelanthropus sites are within an area of 0.73 km2.
>
Not too far from where another hominin taxon, Australopithecus bahrelghazali, was discovered in 1995.
>
That appears to be where the 266 was found.
>
No, the Toros-Menalla Sahelanthropus sites are about 150 km west of the Koro-Toro australopithecine site and stratigraphically ~3.5 million years older.
>
If you think that's the wrong place you must have some concept of what is the right place. Where would that be?
>
Well any other day of the week the clown act insists it's South Africa:
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_Humankind
>
I would have guessed that you knew.
>
But why do you think South-Africa is the right place?
The phylogenetically most basal and stratigraphically oldest hominins are from East- and North-Africa.
>
See for example:
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jhevol.2023.103437
>
Their Bayesian inference analysis, with posterior probabilities for nodes given as percentages (fig.6):
>
https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0047248423001161-gr6_lrg.jpg
>
That tree topology would refute your hypothesis.
>
To be fair, if those are Bayesian posteriors, many of them are pretty bad. But what is JTEM's hypothesis?
 That australopithecines are the ancestors of the African apes (Pan and Gorilla) as suggested in this publication (see fig.3 on page 17):
 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/376650459
 And apparently also that the human clade originated in South-Africa.
 Of course, none of it with any substantial support from phylogenetic systematics.
I don't believe that the South African origin is JTEM's belief. He seems to be making fun of it. But you may be right about his other hypothesis. It's so hard to tell.
The node that puts Sahelanthropus into the human lineage gets only 90% Bayesian support, which is very low, and the 77% for the Pan/human node means it might as well be collapsed, leaving a trichotomy for Gorilla/Pan/hominins.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
3 Aug 24 * Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective46JTEM
4 Aug 24 +* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective37Mario Petrinovic
4 Aug 24 i`* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective36Mario Petrinovic
4 Aug 24 i `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective35Mario Petrinovic
4 Aug 24 i  +* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective20Mario Petrinovic
4 Aug 24 i  i`* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective19Mario Petrinovic
4 Aug 24 i  i `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective18Mario Petrinovic
4 Aug 24 i  i  `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective17John Harshman
5 Aug 24 i  i   +- Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective1Mario Petrinovic
5 Aug 24 i  i   `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective15Mario Petrinovic
5 Aug 24 i  i    `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective14John Harshman
5 Aug 24 i  i     `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective13Mario Petrinovic
5 Aug 24 i  i      +* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective8Mario Petrinovic
5 Aug 24 i  i      i`* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective7John Harshman
5 Aug 24 i  i      i `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective6Mario Petrinovic
5 Aug 24 i  i      i  `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective5John Harshman
6 Aug 24 i  i      i   `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective4Mario Petrinovic
6 Aug 24 i  i      i    `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective3John Harshman
6 Aug 24 i  i      i     +- Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective1Mario Petrinovic
6 Aug 24 i  i      i     `- Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective1Mario Petrinovic
5 Aug 24 i  i      `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective4John Harshman
5 Aug 24 i  i       `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective3Mario Petrinovic
5 Aug 24 i  i        `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective2John Harshman
6 Aug 24 i  i         `- Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective1Mario Petrinovic
4 Aug 24 i  `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective14JTEM
5 Aug 24 i   `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective13Mario Petrinovic
5 Aug 24 i    `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective12Mario Petrinovic
5 Aug 24 i     `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective11JTEM
5 Aug 24 i      `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective10John Harshman
5 Aug 24 i       `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective9JTEM
5 Aug 24 i        `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective8John Harshman
6 Aug 24 i         `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective7JTEM
6 Aug 24 i          `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective6John Harshman
6 Aug 24 i           `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective5JTEM
6 Aug 24 i            `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective4John Harshman
7 Aug 24 i             `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective3JTEM
7 Aug 24 i              `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective2John Harshman
9 Aug 24 i               `- Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective1JTEM
4 Aug 24 `* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective8JTEM
5 Aug 24  +* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective6John Harshman
5 Aug 24  i+* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective4John Harshman
5 Aug 24  ii`* Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective3John Harshman
7 Aug 24  ii +- Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective1John Harshman
7 Aug 24  ii `- Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective1John Harshman
6 Aug 24  i`- Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective1JTEM
6 Aug 24  `- Re: The taxonomy of Sahelanthropus tchadensis from a craniometric perspective1JTEM

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