Re: UK demands Apple break encryption to allow gov't spying wolrdwide, report says

On 08/02/2025 19:51, Peter Fairbrother wrote:

On 08/02/2025 13:39, Richard Heathfield wrote:

On 08/02/2025 13:23, The Running Man wrote:

On 08/02/2025 09:34 Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

[...]

This is batshit crazy, because the genie left the bottle decades
ago. If Alice wants to communicate secretly with Bob, and if
keeping the government ignorant matters enough to Alice and Bob
both, they can do it, and the government hasn't a prayer. We know
it, they know it, and GCHQ know it. If Apple provide a back door,
Alices who care will simply go elsewhere than Apple, or even roll
their own using tried and tested ingredients.

 That it is not really correct - if it is less easy to communicate and store data securely then more people will have no option but to use less secure methods.

I don't see the grounds for your protasis. Why is it less easy to communicate and store data securely? Why must people use less secure methods?

Also not being clever enough to write their own app or code does not count as stupid.

I agree, but trusting a cryptosystem known to have a back door certainly does count as stupid.
You might use it as a channel for sheer convenience, but it would be daft not to superencrypt.

The only people an Apple back door will ever catch are stupid people
with stupid secrets, e.g. politicians.

 Unfortunately catching stupid people is sufficient reason to ask - many (most?) crooks are stupid. Or merely uninformed about internet and cryptologic security.

Sure. But this is rather like issuing the police go-faster tyres for their bicycles. It may help them catch crooks who ride bikes, but it's still useless against well-equipped and well-informed crooks. BUT WAIT! We're only targetting slow crooks...

The UK Government does not consider accessing data stored in the cloud (or Apple servers) as being interception, and it is legally much easier to demand than plaintext or even ciphertext of communications.

It's also the electronic equivalent of crooks hiding their ill-gotten gains on the front lawn and hoping that the coppers will close their eyes whenever they cycle past.

Note that in the UK you have to give up keys to stored data on demand.

With a warrant, yes, and that means evidence, which means the crook has already failed.

Anyone stupid enough to rely on "apps" for illegal endeavours should not be surprised when Plod knocks on their door, no matter what default the "app" claims to use.

 Unfortunately not being clever enough to write their own app or code, or to be able to judge whether an app is secure, does not count as stupid.

No, it counts as not qualified to use crypto, and should instead be assigned to pedal the getaway bike (and not being clever enough to drive their own car or to be able to judge whether a bicycle is faster than a police car does not count as stupid).

 Excepting perhaps here...

:-)
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
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