Re: Datasheet-flation?

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Sujet : Re: Datasheet-flation?
De : blockedofcourse (at) *nospam* foo.invalid (Don Y)
Groupes : sci.electronics.design
Date : 30. Nov 2024, 04:06:58
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vidvgs$1c2fm$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
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On 11/29/2024 6:44 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-11-30 02:00, Don Y wrote:
On 11/29/2024 3:30 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My first job was as programmer for small company. They had tasked an external programmer with creating a software for them with LabWindows. This thing creates displays; think a virtual oscilloscope display, for instance, measuring things like temperature, pressure, rpm, etc. My boss says "I want you to add a voltage display". Simple.
>
Well, the original programmer had removed the header file that assigned labels to both the display windows and the code. The code would say "display_crt(31, A1)", where 31 was the element in the display to display rpm, for instance. If I inserted "voltage" in the display window, all the numbers shifted by one, so that 31 became pressure, for instance.
>
The programmer had sabotaged the code so that no one could touch it by replacing labels with their values.
>
It took me months to recreate the header file with labels. My boss thought I was useless: it is difficult to explain this to a non programmer.
>
I took a contract, years ago, to address a similar issue; they had hired
a "student" to write the code, he managed to get it working, then finished
school and "moved on".
>
Of course, they eventually wanted to modify the product and discovered that
they didn't have a *copy* of the source code -- not even a PRINT copy!
>
So, I reverse engineered the binary (not just "decompile" because that
sort of result adds very little to understanding the code) adding comments,
judiciously choosing function and variable names, etc.
>
Some years later, I took on a much larger reverse engineering job (500KB
binary).  But, relied on tools to help with a lot of the grunt work.
>
I carefully documented since then every program I wrote. I did not want any other person to suffer what I did.
>
Be thankful it wasn't intentionally obfuscated!  In your case, all you had
to do was recreate the symbol mappings.  Imagine if the original code had
been passed through an obfuscator so, in addition to symbolic names, the
actual control flow had been deliberately distorted!
 Huh. I think not, because then the LabWindows environment would not run.
Obfuscators preserve the intended functionality.  They just dick with
the steps to get TO it.
E.g., display_crt(31, A1) might be transformed into:
     figger = 961;
     bugger(123, 9987, foo);
     blandow();
bugger(int vvvrs, int vvvsr, char *gobbler) {
     fftre = strlen(gobbler) + 88;
     for (greg = fftre; greg -= 3; greg > 4)
              sstste += greg[gobbler];
     figger += 8*8 - 1;
}
blandow() {
     display_crt(sqrt(figger), A1);
     figger -=25;
}
Though, more likely, superfluous whitespace and newlines would be
omitted just to make it look like a REAL mess!
[If I've done this correctly (in my head), you will see that display_crt
is invoked with the same arguments in your original case.  There's just
lots of other cruft inserted that does nothing productive (though that
stuff could also be looking forward to something ELSE that will be done,
later -- e.g., arranging for figger to have a particular value that
can be exploited later.]
You can also "break rules", like using values left on the stack after
a function return -- because you KNOW you aren't going to do anything
to compromise those values before you can access them (a taboo,
otherwise)

For closed designs, it is relatively easy to embed invisible dependencies
in the code that are highly resistant to "tampering" (revising the
software is just a special case of tampering!).  If you don't understand
that this has been done to thwart your efforts, you can spend AGES looking
for elusive bugs that have been DESIGNED to deliberately hide!
>
[The goal of any such effort is to increase the cost of copying/modifying
to the point where it approaches the cost of designing from scratch]
 Or to force hiring again the original developer.
This is most often done BY the principal to protect his IP.
I had a client complain that my code was "broken" (I provide free
lifetime support as an indication of the faith I have in my
deliverables).  Yet, the binary he delivered in the sample product
(I don't keep client prototypes as they take up too much space)
was obviously different from the code delivered (amusing how
often this happens!  Do you really think I won't notice that you're
giving me something that is different from what I delivered?  Do
you think that I don't KEEP copies of all this stuff???).
He begrudgingly admitted that he had run an obfuscator on my
code with the "guarantee" that the code would function as originally
intended.
Nope.
"Well, can you at least take a LOOK at it?"
"Sorry, I have no desire to sort out YOUR mess.  Talk to the folks
who made the 'guarantee'."
Your goal (as an employee, contractor, supplier, etc.) should always
be to have the client/customer NOT need you after the "sale".  If
he likes what he got, then he'll come back for more work/product.
Forcing or coercing the client or customer inevitably leaves a
bad taste in their mouth -- that they associate with *you*!

Date Sujet#  Auteur
23 Nov 24 * Datasheet-flation?112Don Y
23 Nov 24 +* Re: Datasheet-flation?5john larkin
23 Nov 24 i+* Re: Datasheet-flation?3Cursitor Doom
23 Nov 24 ii+- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin
24 Nov 24 ii`- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Bill Sloman
23 Nov 24 i`- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Joe Gwinn
23 Nov 24 +* Re: Datasheet-flation?103Waldek Hebisch
23 Nov 24 i+* Re: Datasheet-flation?27john larkin
24 Nov 24 ii`* Re: Datasheet-flation?26Waldek Hebisch
24 Nov 24 ii `* Re: Datasheet-flation?25john larkin
25 Nov 24 ii  +* Re: Datasheet-flation?2Waldek Hebisch
25 Nov 24 ii  i`- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin
25 Nov 24 ii  `* Re: Datasheet-flation?22Carlos E.R.
25 Nov 24 ii   `* Re: Datasheet-flation?21Don Y
25 Nov 24 ii    `* Re: Datasheet-flation?20Carlos E.R.
25 Nov 24 ii     `* Re: Datasheet-flation?19Don Y
26 Nov 24 ii      `* Re: Datasheet-flation?18Carlos E.R.
26 Nov 24 ii       `* Re: Datasheet-flation?17Don Y
27 Nov 24 ii        `* Re: Datasheet-flation?16Carlos E.R.
27 Nov 24 ii         `* Re: Datasheet-flation?15Don Y
28 Nov 24 ii          `* Re: Datasheet-flation?14Carlos E.R.
29 Nov 24 ii           `* Re: Datasheet-flation?13Don Y
29 Nov 24 ii            `* Re: Datasheet-flation?12john larkin
29 Nov 24 ii             `* Re: Datasheet-flation?11Carlos E.R.
30 Nov 24 ii              +- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Joe Gwinn
30 Nov 24 ii              +* Re: Datasheet-flation?8Don Y
30 Nov 24 ii              i`* Re: Datasheet-flation?7Carlos E.R.
30 Nov 24 ii              i `* Re: Datasheet-flation?6Don Y
30 Nov 24 ii              i  +- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Don Y
1 Dec 24 ii              i  `* Re: Datasheet-flation?4Carlos E.R.
1 Dec 24 ii              i   `* Re: Datasheet-flation?3Don Y
2 Dec 24 ii              i    `* Re: Datasheet-flation?2Carlos E.R.
2 Dec 24 ii              i     `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Don Y
30 Nov 24 ii              `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin
23 Nov 24 i+* Re: Datasheet-flation?73Liz Tuddenham
23 Nov 24 ii+* Re: Datasheet-flation?3Joe Gwinn
24 Nov 24 iii`* Re: Datasheet-flation?2Jeroen Belleman
25 Nov 24 iii `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Joe Gwinn
24 Nov 24 ii+- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin
24 Nov 24 ii+- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Don Y
24 Nov 24 ii`* Re: Datasheet-flation?67Don Y
24 Nov 24 ii `* Re: Datasheet-flation?66Liz Tuddenham
24 Nov 24 ii  +* Re: Datasheet-flation?54Don Y
24 Nov 24 ii  i`* Re: Datasheet-flation?53Cursitor Doom
24 Nov 24 ii  i `* Re: Datasheet-flation?52Liz Tuddenham
25 Nov 24 ii  i  +* Re: Datasheet-flation?22Cursitor Doom
25 Nov 24 ii  i  i`* Re: Datasheet-flation?21Liz Tuddenham
26 Nov 24 ii  i  i `* Re: Datasheet-flation?20Cursitor Doom
26 Nov 24 ii  i  i  `* Re: Datasheet-flation?19Liz Tuddenham
26 Nov 24 ii  i  i   `* Re: Datasheet-flation?18john larkin
26 Nov 24 ii  i  i    +- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Cursitor Doom
26 Nov 24 ii  i  i    `* Re: Datasheet-flation?16Liz Tuddenham
27 Nov 24 ii  i  i     +* Re: Datasheet-flation?2john larkin
27 Nov 24 ii  i  i     i`- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Carlos E.R.
27 Nov 24 ii  i  i     `* Re: Datasheet-flation?13Cursitor Doom
28 Nov 24 ii  i  i      `* Re: Datasheet-flation?12Liz Tuddenham
28 Nov 24 ii  i  i       `* Re: Datasheet-flation?11john larkin
29 Nov 24 ii  i  i        `* Re: Datasheet-flation?10Cursitor Doom
29 Nov 24 ii  i  i         +- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin
29 Nov 24 ii  i  i         `* Re: Datasheet-flation?8Liz Tuddenham
29 Nov 24 ii  i  i          +* Re: Datasheet-flation?4john larkin
1 Dec 24 ii  i  i          i`* Re: Datasheet-flation?3Cursitor Doom
2 Dec 24 ii  i  i          i `* Re: Datasheet-flation?2Liz Tuddenham
2 Dec 24 ii  i  i          i  `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin
1 Dec 24 ii  i  i          `* Re: Datasheet-flation?3DJ Delorie
2 Dec 24 ii  i  i           +- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Liz Tuddenham
2 Dec 24 ii  i  i           `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin
29 Nov 24 ii  i  `* Re: Datasheet-flation?29Liz Tuddenham
29 Nov 24 ii  i   `* Re: Datasheet-flation?28Carlos E.R.
29 Nov 24 ii  i    +* Re: Datasheet-flation?7john larkin
29 Nov 24 ii  i    i+- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Jeroen Belleman
29 Nov 24 ii  i    i+- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Carlos E.R.
29 Nov 24 ii  i    i`* Re: Datasheet-flation?4Waldek Hebisch
30 Nov 24 ii  i    i +* Re: Datasheet-flation?2john larkin
1 Dec 24 ii  i    i i`- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Cursitor Doom
1 Dec 24 ii  i    i `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Cursitor Doom
29 Nov 24 ii  i    `* Re: Datasheet-flation?20Jeroen Belleman
29 Nov 24 ii  i     `* Re: Datasheet-flation?19Carlos E.R.
1 Dec 24 ii  i      +* Re: Datasheet-flation?8Cursitor Doom
2 Dec 24 ii  i      i`* Re: Datasheet-flation?7Carlos E.R.
2 Dec 24 ii  i      i +- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin
2 Dec 24 ii  i      i `* Re: Datasheet-flation?5Jeroen Belleman
2 Dec 24 ii  i      i  +* Re: Datasheet-flation?3Carlos E.R.
2 Dec 24 ii  i      i  i`* Re: Datasheet-flation?2john larkin
2 Dec 24 ii  i      i  i `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Carlos E.R.
2 Dec 24 ii  i      i  `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin
2 Dec 24 ii  i      `* Re: Datasheet-flation?10john larkin
2 Dec 24 ii  i       +* Re: Datasheet-flation?7Jeroen Belleman
2 Dec 24 ii  i       i+- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin
2 Dec 24 ii  i       i`* Re: Datasheet-flation?5Phil Hobbs
2 Dec 24 ii  i       i `* Re: Datasheet-flation?4Jeroen Belleman
2 Dec 24 ii  i       i  `* Re: Datasheet-flation?3Joe Gwinn
2 Dec 24 ii  i       i   `* Re: Datasheet-flation?2Jeroen Belleman
2 Dec 24 ii  i       i    `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Joe Gwinn
2 Dec 24 ii  i       `* Re: Datasheet-flation?2Carlos E.R.
2 Dec 24 ii  i        `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin
24 Nov 24 ii  +* Re: Datasheet-flation?10john larkin
24 Nov 24 ii  i`* Re: Datasheet-flation?9Liz Tuddenham
24 Nov 24 ii  i `* Re: Datasheet-flation?8john larkin
24 Nov 24 ii  i  `* Re: Datasheet-flation?7Jeroen Belleman
24 Nov 24 ii  i   +- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Liz Tuddenham
24 Nov 24 ii  i   `* Re: Datasheet-flation?5john larkin
24 Nov 24 ii  `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1Jeff Liebermann
23 Nov 24 i`* Re: Datasheet-flation?2Don Y
23 Nov 24 +* Re: Datasheet-flation?2Jeff Liebermann
28 Nov 24 `- Re: Datasheet-flation?1john larkin

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