Re: energy in UK

On 16/04/2025 23:49, Don Y wrote:

On 4/16/2025 3:11 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

Is the "cap" significantly higher than the "normal" rate?  Or, is it,
effectively, the "normal rate"?

>
The cap limits ordinary home users exposure to extreme market volatility. It

 Of course.  But, a consumer's idea of a "reasonable cap" and a PROVIDER'S idea
are likely worlds apart!  Hence my question as to whether or not it was,
EFFECTIVELY, the normal rate (i.e., providers opting for as much as they
can get, within the current constraints)

It is better than any of the alternatives. I suspect at one point the utility companies were at break even or even making a slight loss on domestic customers when the gas price went up very high.
They compensated by hammering business users.

Time of use tariffs are still uncommon in the UK. It is possible with a smart meter (which I now have) but supplier offers are pretty poor. Previously I had a counter rotating dials mechanism dating from the 1950's (which had clocked - overflowing the counter back to all zeros).

 I believe all of the meters, locally, have now been switched over to solid
state devices.  Remote monitoring being a desirable asset (*reading* a
meter is only "worth" ~25p so it, in itself, is not enough to justify
the cost of the swap).

The "smart" meter program in the UK has been hilarious. They rolled out model 1 systems that are almost trivial for a state actor to hack. I waited for a gen 2 "smart" meter which so far has behaved pretty well.
I had my own monitoring clipped onto the incoming live line so it doesn't really give me anything new except fewer meter reader visits.
There are two different comms systems in use one which works and one which doesn't. The north of England where I live has the latter. My meter actually works OK but the one in our Village Hall nearby failed within days of being installed and they have now given up on it.
A bit more info here.
https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/smets-1-and-2-new-smart-meter-generation
Only the SMETS2 meters are properly cryptosecure.

It is possible to have local domestic battery storage and exploit the overnight low rates - though to get the best deals you need to own an electric car (or at least convince your electricity supplier you do).

 Here, the issue is the high PEAK demands that the ACbrrs place on individual
subscribers.  We could probably get by on a 3-5KW plant -- but, only if
we could store and deliver for large loads (I think the ACbrr is ~14KW).

That is huge. I sometimes have a small fan on from time to time but the house temperature seldom exceeds 25C in summer. Night time almost always drops below 16C (56F) so tropical nights are rare here.

My supplier has just offered me half price electricity at the weekends. Only snag is their website won't allow me to accept their generous offer - it keeps saying "something went wrong- try again later".

 If there isn't a corresponding INCREASE in the weekday rate, it could
be a win.  They likely have surplus (weekend) capacity and are looking
to encourage users to consume that, instead of weekDAY capacity.

Yes the 5:2 ratio is very visible in the national power output graphs.

Aircon isn't really a thing in domestic UK buildings. The number of days a year when it would be needed can be counted on the fingers of one hand. My house manages it with Victoria technology - very thick walls and windows to open at night. Centres of major cities do get rather warm due to office buildings with air conditioning pumping out heat!

 Most construction, here, is masonary -- 8" block.  But, when the outside
temperatures rise so early in the year and persist for so long THROUGH the
year, that actually works against you -- the house STAYS hot because of the
thermal storage in its walls.

Aren't you in desert country?
I thought the overnight temperatures could drop quite low there...

[We've already had our first 100F day and it's been above 80F since February]

It is spring here. Has been as high as 20C (64F) but yesterday was cold 5C (40F?). Working towards Bank Holiday (bad) weather after a prolonged warm spell that has seen all cherry, plum and pear blossom out.

Having solar panels is another way to get onto a ToU tariff. Even that is gamed though. Much domestic PV electricity ends up heating domestic water as the feed in tariffs are also based on crazy sums. There is an aftermarket in diverters to exploit this loophole.
>
There are incentives to install solar PV but none for solar hot water.

 You could, of course, use (PV) electrically heated water.  There are
myriad schemes to make better use of the energy available but few
see widespread use.

That is what the aftermarket diverters allow to happen. Through a quirk in the Feed-in Tariffs it pays to do that and only export the excess.

A personal favorite, here, would be to capture the waste heat from the
ACbrrr condenser and use it to heat swimming pool water; the liquid medium
would likely be a more efficient coolant than air sourced in a typical
condenser.  And, 100F pool water is delightful!

Outdoor swimming pools are not common in the UK. It is too cold - although wild swimming in open water is on the increase since Covid.

We have a standing charge which covers distribution and all the bankruptcies of box shifter companies that got into selling electricity to consumers without having the first clue about what they were doing.

 Almost all of our charges are tied directly to usage.  Using LESS is
obviously the best approach.

That is still true here, but the daily standing charge went through the roof when so many stupid "electricity" companies went bust all at once.

The utility has been complaining that they have "too much" residential
solar capacity (the utility has a say in whether or not YOU can use solar
and how large your installation can be)

>
UK allows up to 4kW solar generation on any domestic premises. More than that

 I don't think the *city* places limits on size of plant.  But, requires it
to reside on rooftops to avoid permitting, architects, etc. (of course).

That is a double win in a low latitude country because the double skin on the roof creates shade and delays ingress of heat. Clever backing on the panels (thin insualtion and Alu foil) can improve it further at the expense of losing efficiency of the solar panels due to increased heating.

That, of course, means any time you need to have your roof serviced,
the array must be disconnected or dismounted.  Then, reinspected
after reinstallation.

and you have to apply for a license. It confused the load shedding algorithms last time there was a serious power outage since it was about 6pm in mid summer and so when they shed a nominal 1GW of load they also dropped off about 100MW of small solar PV systems. It was enough to lose control of the frequency again and a cascade failure ensued.

 Too funny.  C'mon, this isn't rocket science!

The network stability is actually quite a tough problem. And getting tougher with the rapid removal of so much spinning generator kit which has serious angular momentum stored energy in the rotating equipment.
The problem with locally electronic phase matched output is that it will quite happily track whatever frequency is sees on the mains.

[OTOH, I am always amazed at how out-of-date the (network) "maps" are
that the utility uses.  Didn't anyone write this stuff down?  Do
you even KNOW where your equipment is?  Or, does a crew have to go
out and visually identify it??]

They typically have no idea and fewer skilled engineers than are needed to reconnect people in more remote areas when there is big storm damage.

We also have a ridiculous amount of solar PV for such a high latitude. This is governed by the fact that in a good year a farmer can make around £200/acre by actively growing crops and £2k/acre by stuffing their land full of solar panels. Many are choosing the latter.

 I suspect we will see a similar pattern (perhaps wind) with large
swatches of farmland, here -- esp as climate change renders particular
crops harder to grow, increased pestilence, etc.
 "This farm has been in my family for 5 generations!  (but, now it's
a WIND/PV farm cuz I can't grow shit!)"

Wind power you can still graze animals or grow crops underneath as it doesn't shade the ground. UK has rather more offshore windfarms than most. The blades for the bigger ones are amazing things of beauty.
I sometimes pass them on the motorway. Definitely "abnormal load" !

It is ultimately all about very clever financial engineering to load the balance sheet with debt and pay handsome dividends to foreign owners.
>
Penny wise and pound foolish for the the UK.

>
It seems like a change to the tax code could quickly change their fortunes?

>
Not really - a lot of them have been sold off to foreign companies.

 Don't they still have to pay local taxes?  Even if they ship the
profits off to foreign investors?

No. That is how the loading up with massive debt trick works. They are allowed to offset interest payments on loans against taxable profits.
(and pay themselves big dividends into tax havens)
--
Martin Brown