Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain

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Sujet : Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain
De : blockedofcourse (at) *nospam* foo.invalid (Don Y)
Groupes : sci.electronics.design
Date : 08. May 2025, 12:49:02
Autres entêtes
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Message-ID : <vvi5nh$1o2vk$1@dont-email.me>
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But where can exchange traffic go?  See what I mean?  Anyone that
you want to contact (and everyone along the way) must be "up".
 That was the original point of ARPANET then EPSS and later the internet. Packet switching means that any route to the destination at all will do.
But that assumes there *is* a series of hops that can get you "there"...
wherever "there" happens to be.  In a nationwide outage, what chance
that everything EXCEPT some critical bit of comms gear is affected?

I'm told that my fibre feed is passive optical connectors and splices all the way back the regional exchange about 12 miles away. My local exchange was about 5 miles away and a so-called exchange only direct line (which meant that ADSL 2+ was the limit for me prior to FTTP).
So, you rely on the exchange having upstream connectivity.  Along
with the fiber link TO the exchange.

My mobile phone worked all the day, I could send and receive whatsapp messages.
>
Are those processed "locally"?
 Mobile phone masts here typically have a lifetime of about 8-40 hours after power failure depending on how heavily they are being used. Backhaul presumably is optical or microwave.
So, also subject to outage.

Most powercuts tend to be fairly local round here - a regional powercut or a national one requires something truly catastrophic to happen.
 I can only recall one UK powercut in that league in the past half century (August 9 2019). Of course it directly affected the densely populated affluent regions London and the South East. Therefore it was much more newsworthy than if it had affected the remote Scottish Highlands where weather induced powercuts are quite common.
I don't think I've ever (regardless of where I've lived) experienced
a deliberate power cut.  A drunk may take out a telephone pole or
a branch may fall on some high tension wires but no one has ever
said "sorry, we're turning the lights out" (for whatever reason)

The recent big one at Heathrow didn't affect all that many people although it did take down the whole airport which shows remarkably bad contingency planning - it should have had supply redundancy and the ability to switchover to it before the diesel generators ran out of fuel. Heads should roll over them having to shut down completely.
Fukishima?

I have a small computer doing server things, and it tried to email me as soon as the UPS said it was running on battery. That email did not reach me till the power came back; this could be that the fibre went OOS, or that the UPS at my router went down instantly. I do not know.
>
Doesn't your UPS deliver log messages (to a syslog server or data
dumps to an FTP service)?
>
I have each of mine configured to give me summaries of power consumption
and line conditions each minute.  And, use a syslogd on that same server.
 I only log external power failures. Kitchen appliance clocks all reset when we lose power for more than a couple of seconds.
Each UPS has a link to my syslogd (the switches and that server being backed
up in the event of power outages).
I additionally configure them to report their loads every minute (to get
a feel for where I'm "doing work" as well as how heavily each is taxed.

I'm considering replacing the UPS at my router. Some UPS "destroy" the battery too fast.
>
Yes.  Rather than spend time investigating it, I've taken the approach
of just rescuing batteries to replace those that have been "cooked".
 That is a feature of UPS design that specsmanship to get the longest run time for the sales datasheet means that they cook their batteries. I have seen them swell to the point of bursting inside a UPS. Thick rubber gloves needed to remove the remains. Support metalwork was a real corroded rusty mess but electronics above it remained OK.
Yup.  They have a rationalization, though -- they are trying to provide the
highest availability.  Else, how much availability do you sacrifice to
maximize battery life?  Do you then start specifying battery life as a
primary selection criteria?
[Most SOHO users buy a UPS -- thinking they are being "professional" -- and
then discard it when the battery needs replacing and they discover the
costs charged by the UPS manufacturer -- or local "battery stores"]

I suspect the problem (rationalized by the manufacturers) is trying to
bring the battery back to full charge ASAP -- as well as keeping the
highest state of charge that the battery can support.
 Which taken to extremes is very bad for battery life.
Of course.  But, they are in the PRIMARY business of selling batteries,
not UPSs!

Charging at a slower rate and to a lower float voltage would
compromise the UPS's availability -- but provide less maintenance costs
(of course, the manufacturer wants to sell you batteries, so you
can see where their priorities will lie!)
 They really think I'm going to buy their vastly overpriced replacements?
If you were a business, it would just be a maintenance expense.
You would budget for it.  If SOHO, you'd likely replace it at
most once and then realize "Gee, I haven't NEEDED this in the
past three years so why am I spending more money on it?"
With the exception of multi-user servers, individual workstations
usually have auto-backup provisions *in* the key applications.
And, in the event of an outage (even if the machine stays up),
the user is usually distracted by the rest of the house/office
going black; is ~15 minutes of uptime going to be enough if the
user isn't AT the machine when power fails?
No one has yet to address the market where TCO is the driving
criteria.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
29 Apr 25 * Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain266Martin Brown
29 Apr 25 +* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain209Bill Sloman
29 Apr 25 i+* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain57Martin Brown
29 Apr 25 ii+* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain34Don Y
29 Apr 25 iii`* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain33Martin Brown
29 Apr 25 iii +- Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain1john larkin
30 Apr 25 iii +* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain30Don Y
30 Apr 25 iii i+* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain2john larkin
30 Apr 25 iii ii`- Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain1Martin Brown
30 Apr 25 iii i+* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain2Jeff Layman
30 Apr 25 iii ii`- Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain1Don Y
30 Apr 25 iii i`* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain25Martin Brown
30 Apr 25 iii i +* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain23Don Y
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1 May 25 iii i iii+* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain3Don Y
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1 May 25 iii i iiii `- Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain1Phil Hobbs
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2 May 25 iii i i i `- Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain1Joe Gwinn
1 May 25 iii i i `* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain7Gerhard Hoffmann
2 May 25 iii i i  +* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain5Don Y
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2 May 25 iii i i  i `* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain3Don Y
2 May 25 iii i i  i  `* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain2Carlos E.R.
3 May 25 iii i i  i   `- Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain1Don Y
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1 May 25 iiii`* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain6KevinJ93
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2 May 25 iii   +* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain4john larkin
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5 May 25 i  i i    i i    `* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain87Don Y
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30 Apr 25 i  `* Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain2Lasse Langwadt
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