Re: OT: Dynamic DNA structures and the formation of memory

On 13/05/2024 11:54 pm, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Sun, 12 May 2024 18:30:32 -0700, John Larkin
<jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote:
 

On Sun, 12 May 2024 21:21:56 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
<fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:
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John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 05 May 2024 05:36:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

Dynamic DNA structures and the formation of memory
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/05/240501125755.htm
Summary:
An international collaborative research team has discovered that
G-quadraplex DNA (G4-DNA) accumulates in neurons and dynamically
controls the activation and repression of genes underlying long-term
memory formation.
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I have always though that memory could be stored as DNA sequenxes...

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More likely RNA or some other protein.
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The oft-mocked Lamarckian concept, of genetic learning (not just
natural selection) is probably real, and some reverse transcription
does happen, namely that DNA is edited within the life of one
organism. But remembering where you left your glasses is probably
handled at a lower level than editing your chromosones.

>
But how can it be passed down as Lamarck thought, if the eggs in the
ovaries are formed early? If genetic memory could be passed down it
would be only from the father because sperm are formed recently. But the
sperm spawn from local cells. If DNA is edited to store memory then
would these changes be duplicated in all cells in all tissues? How else
would the changes get into sperm cells? How could they get into eggs?
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If it is advantageous for a woman's life experiences to be passed onto
her children, nature will find a way.

 Yes, but that is not the issue.  Lamark claimed that it could be done
very quickly, in the lifetime of one woman, versus over generations
(where DNA controls).  Actually, Lamark was focused on Wheat,
specifically can one train wheat to grow in Siberia; this was very
attractive to Stalin.  Turns out you cannot.
 But there is a twist.  There was a study of the effect of mass
starvation of the Swedish population which showed that one could
detect the effect of starvation of grandfathers on their
grandchildren.  It is thought that this is mediated by epigenetic
information carried in methyl tags on the DNA, but I don't know if
that was ever sorted out.  "Överkalix study":
 .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96verkalix_study>

The one I know about was in the Dutch population - the children of women conceived during the "hunger winter" at the end of 1944 were smaller than usual.
The eggs that developed in the embryos growing during the "hunger winter" had the same epigenetic adaption to inadequate nutrition as all the other cells in those embryos, and developed into small babies when they  were fertilised twenty to forty years later.
https://www.naturalhistorymag.com/features/142195/beyond-dna-epigenetics
It was a small part of the whole story.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney