Re: Expedition to Europa

On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 11:26:56 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 11:35:47 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
>

On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 04:04:11 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>

On 6/28/2024 10:08 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 6/27/2024 5:17 PM, Don Y wrote:
 

Most big librarys carry AW.
>
.<https://europa.nasa.gov/mission/about/>
>
If it turns out that there is life in the ocean of Europa, which has
existed for something like four billion years, it supports the general
idea of "random but inevitable" theories of Abiogenesis.

>
_Remembrance of Earth's Past_ has an interesting take on the whole
notion behind an "empty" universe.  It's a tedious read (mainly for
me coming from a non-chinese culture... just keeping track of the
characters is difficult) but has some good ideas to chew on at its core.

 
My guess: The Universe is mammoth, the technological and energy requirements of
even short-distance interstellar travel are immense, the lifespan of
technological civilizations is highly time-limited before such a civilization
destroys itself, technological civilizations are very rare to begin with, and
no technological civilization ever survives long enough to attempt it.

>
That wouldn't explain why there are no *signs* of intelligent life.
>
*We* can't (yet) travel interstellar distances in single lifetimes
but I'm sure anyone with technology comparable to ours would be able to
*detect* our presence (given that we seem to make no attempt at "hiding")
>
_If the Universe Is Teeming with Aliens ... WHERE IS EVERYBODY?_ gives some
interesting takes on the Fermi paradox.

>
That's a bit self-important. 
>
If the universe is teaming with life, but alien civilizations capable
of interstellar travel are exceedingly rare, there would be little
reason for those spacefaring aliens to visit any but the other
advanced alien civilizations. 
>
We might get the equivalent of an anthropologist ever few million
year, and they would do whatever needed to prevent detection by that
which they study.
>
Joe Gwinn

>
An intelligent alien lifeform is probably thousands of light-years
away. Unless they have a Warp Drive, there's no way they would want to
visit us.

The claim being made was that because we were not seeing any
intelligent aliens, they must not exist, or are very rare.  Which does
not follow.

A very advanced robot might.

Even if they do have warp drives, they may still send a robot.

But given the technological gulf between Earthlings and any
civilization possessing any warp drive, we won't detect them unless
they want us to.


Joe Gwinn