Re: EMC compliance question

On 11-10-2024 21:20, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 11 Oct 2024 20:59:09 +0200, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund
<klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:
 

On 10-10-2024 23:11, john larkin wrote:

On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 13:41:07 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>

On 10/9/2024 4:03 PM, bitrex wrote:

What's the deal with the "CPU board" exemption?
>
"CPU board. A circuit board that contains a microprocessor, or frequency
determining circuitry for the microprocessor, the primary function of which is
to execute user-provided programming, but not including:
A circuit board that contains only a microprocessor intended to operate under
the primary control or instruction of a microprocessor external to such a
circuit board; or
A circuit board that is a dedicated controller for a storage or input/output
device."
>
So if one sells a board that has say a PIC on it and some support logic, and
the 9kHz+ signals are all internal to the uP (self-clock), but it's otherwise a
functionally complete design other than it's not in a housing, is that an
exempt product?

>
Who is your customer?  If you are selling it as a *product*,
it is not a *compliant* product so your customer inherits
no certifications (because there are none).
>
If your customer integrates it into *his* product, then
the responsibility for "product certification" falls on him
(so, you have saved *yourself* a few pennies on the certification
process and left him with any "problems" that your board may
pose to *his* certification).

>
A few pennies for a certified test lab to do full certs?
>

>
If you are selling to hobbyists, you *may* be able to get by
as a noncompliant product (the first case, above) -- so long
as none of your (few?) customers finds themselves drawing
the ire of neighbors, etc. when your device interferes with
their pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.
>
But, you are still exposed as the seller of that noncompliant
product.  How likely will your customers "have your back"
if things get sticky?
>
In the latter case, your customer (integrator) will *likely*
be thankful for any steps you have taken to certify your
"component" as he goes about looking for certification on
*his* composite system.
>
Why do you think so many products are sold with El Cheapo,
off-brand wall warts instead of taking the power supply
design *into* the overall product?

>
A wart relieves one of all the AC-line safety certifications. There
are some big warts these days, including 48v ones.
>

>
If your product can power usage is larger than 15W, then you get close
to nothing by using external SELV supply, because then a lot of the
demands on safety are back in play
>

One can resell a cheap wart with the usual molded-in (usually fake)
UN/CE/CSA markings, or let the customer buy their own wart.
>
>

>
Lastly, it's just "good engineering" -- and great experience -- to
go through the process so you know what to *avoid* in your
future designs.  (ditto for safety requirements)
>
Increasingly, I am seeing extra scrutiny on devices that CAN "talk"
to ensure they aren't talking to anyone that they can't *justify*.
"Why are you phoning home?"  "Why are you initiating HTTP requests?"
"Why are you trying to resolve some oddball domain name?"
>
[These, of course, are a lot harder to "guarantee" without (and
even *despite*!) releasing full sources.  Especially for OTS/FOSS
OSs that may have been preconfigured (for your convenience) to
support services having communications requirements that you
of which you may be ignorant!]

>
Software certs on top of hardware certs?
>

>
Assume your customer is going to need/want to certify his
use of your device and give him a leg up in that process,
pre-sale.

>
For a small company making a modest number of some test instrument,
full certs will multiply development cost. That may be why I don't see
a lot of small instrument companies in europe.
>
The guys I was working with in Oxford laughed at me when I asked if
our atom probe system would need to be CE tested. "CE means Cant
Enforce."
>

>
Some just takes the risks. If you are caught it can be an expensive
risk. On the other hand, I have never heard of a case where the company
went bankrupt. Have heard of large fines, but nothing that killed the
company

 What's crazy is how expensive the CE specs are. I can buy one PDF for
$600, and it will reference a bunch of others. Recursively.
 These specs have the force of law. It's like being forced to pay to
know what's legal or not.
 

Yes, I don't understand that either. I have found some standards "online", if I just need to look. If I need it professionally, I need to buy it of course