Re: electrical deaths

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Sujet : Re: electrical deaths
De : blockedofcourse (at) *nospam* foo.invalid (Don Y)
Groupes : sci.electronics.design
Date : 03. Dec 2024, 03:36:33
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vilqrk$3mmq0$2@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5
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On 12/2/2024 2:17 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Polarization can save the day with toasters and similar appliances. Then
you can make sure that neutral comes in at the top end of the meanders.
In the US, 99+ percent of cases will not have line and neutral reversed.
 I think that the 99+ percent is quite optimistic, especially on older
And on buidings where one (or more) homeowners THOUGHT they knew
enough about "electricity" to be able to make their own repairs.
We had a light switch in the garage that "went nowhere".  Another
light switch that would SOMETIMES result in a shock -- if you touched
the metallic portion of the switch assembly!
Apparently, the "nowhere" switch was originally a "three way" (SPDT)
switch, but some previous owner had replaced it with a regular (SPST)
switch.  When faced with the third conductor (one of the two travelers)
he opted to connect it to the third screw on the switch -- the "earth".
So, depending on which position the switch was in, the "earth" of the
other would be directly connected to the line.  Because all the Jboxes
were plastic, nothing ever went "pop".

buildings.  Back when I was an apartment-dweller, ran into all manner
of trouble, to the point that one of the first things I did in a new
apartment, was to turn the power off and opened all electric boxes,
and straighten out the "carpenter wiring", much of this being
dangerous.
When I wired this place with network cable (5000 ft!), I found a
#12 length of ROMEX heading down into the wall cavity.  On one side,
was a floor to ceiling window.  On the other, cabinets.  I.e., there's
no place this could be going!
And, there wasn't!  When they built the house, there was supposed to
be an outlet along the side of the window.  Wire was there.  Electrons
flowing through it.  Just no "fixture" attached to the end!
<frown>
SWMBO's home had an outlet that she claimed "blew up Tracy's microwave
oven".  "Not possible", I replied.
Turned out that the guy who had wired her kitchen during the remodel
had run a single 12/3 w/GND around the counter area.  He would pick
up one leg and neutral (plus earth) for THIS outlet, then the other
leg and neutral (plus earth) for the next outlet, etc.
For the outlet in question, he picked up both legs (plus earth), but
NO neutral.   Oooops!
So, whether its the "professional" or the "amateur", one should be
wary of actual conditions and not expect them to be "as prescribed".

War Story One:  In the 1970s in Washington, DC, my boss was having
considerable problems with the lights in his newish house in the
suburbs.  For instance, when he turned one light on, an unrelated
light would go off.  I said it sounded like some kind of grounding
problem.  Eventually he invited me to dinner in his house, and bring
your voltmeter.  Which I did.  It turned out that the solid copper
wires at every electrical device (wall switch, outlet, light, et al)
were loose - the electrician (or his assistant had forgotten to
tighten all the terminal screws down.  (Stranded wire was not used
then.)  So boss called the builder to have all those neglected
terminal screws tightened properly.  He was lucky that there wasn't a
fire.
A neighbor had exactly that problem -- and exactly that unwanted outcome.
It was an interesting situation to analyze:  what should he do before the
fire department got there?  Try to kill the power with the main breaker?
Ans:  absolutely nothing; you have no idea what might be hot, now, given
that earth has failed!

Date Sujet#  Auteur
27 Nov 24 * electrical deaths144john larkin
27 Nov 24 +* Re: electrical deaths71Edward Rawde
27 Nov 24 i`* Re: electrical deaths70Cursitor Doom
27 Nov 24 i +- Re: electrical deaths1John R Walliker
28 Nov 24 i `* Re: electrical deaths68Jeff Layman
28 Nov 24 i  +* Re: electrical deaths66Liz Tuddenham
28 Nov 24 i  i+* Re: electrical deaths10Don Y
28 Nov 24 i  ii+* Re: electrical deaths7Carlos E.R.
28 Nov 24 i  iii`* Re: electrical deaths6Joe Gwinn
28 Nov 24 i  iii `* Re: electrical deaths5Cursitor Doom
29 Nov 24 i  iii  `* Re: electrical deaths4Carlos E.R.
29 Nov 24 i  iii   `* Re: electrical deaths3john larkin
29 Nov 24 i  iii    `* Re: electrical deaths2Carlos E.R.
30 Nov 24 i  iii     `- Re: electrical deaths1john larkin
28 Nov 24 i  ii`* Re: electrical deaths2David Lesher
28 Nov 24 i  ii `- Re: electrical deaths1Don Y
28 Nov 24 i  i`* Re: electrical deaths55Martin Brown
28 Nov 24 i  i `* Re: electrical deaths54Carlos E.R.
28 Nov 24 i  i  +* Re: electrical deaths14Clive Arthur
28 Nov 24 i  i  i+* Re: electrical deaths2Liz Tuddenham
28 Nov 24 i  i  ii`- Re: electrical deaths1Joe Gwinn
28 Nov 24 i  i  i+* Re: electrical deaths4Edward Rawde
28 Nov 24 i  i  ii`* Re: electrical deaths3Don Y
29 Nov 24 i  i  ii `* Re: electrical deaths2Edward Rawde
29 Nov 24 i  i  ii  `- Re: electrical deaths1Don Y
29 Nov 24 i  i  i`* Re: electrical deaths7Carlos E.R.
29 Nov 24 i  i  i `* Re: electrical deaths6john larkin
1 Dec 24 i  i  i  `* Re: electrical deaths5Cursitor Doom
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   `* Re: electrical deaths4Carlos E.R.
1 Dec 24 i  i  i    `* Re: electrical deaths3Edward Rawde
1 Dec 24 i  i  i     `* Re: electrical deaths2Carlos E.R.
2 Dec 24 i  i  i      `- Re: electrical deaths1Cursitor Doom
28 Nov 24 i  i  +* Re: electrical deaths38Martin Brown
28 Nov 24 i  i  i`* Re: electrical deaths37Edward Rawde
28 Nov 24 i  i  i `* Re: electrical deaths36Don Y
30 Nov 24 i  i  i  `* Re: electrical deaths35Edward Rawde
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   +* Re: electrical deaths32Don Y
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   i+* Re: electrical deaths30Carlos E.R.
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   ii`* Re: electrical deaths29john larkin
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   ii +* Re: electrical deaths26Ralph Mowery
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   ii i+* Re: electrical deaths21Don Y
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   ii ii+- Re: electrical deaths1john larkin
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   ii ii+* Re: electrical deaths4Don Y
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii`* Re: electrical deaths3Carlos E.R.
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii +- Re: electrical deaths1Cursitor Doom
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii `- Re: electrical deaths1Don Y
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   ii ii+* Re: electrical deaths13Ralph Mowery
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   ii iii`* Re: electrical deaths12Don Y
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii `* Re: electrical deaths11Carlos E.R.
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii  `* Re: electrical deaths10Don Y
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii   `* Re: electrical deaths9Carlos E.R.
2 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii    `* Re: electrical deaths8Don Y
2 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii     `* Re: electrical deaths7Carlos E.R.
2 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii      +- Re: electrical deaths1john larkin
2 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii      `* Re: electrical deaths5Don Y
2 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii       `* Re: electrical deaths4Carlos E.R.
3 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii        `* Re: electrical deaths3Don Y
3 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii         `* Re: electrical deaths2Carlos E.R.
3 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii iii          `- Re: electrical deaths1Don Y
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii ii`* Re: electrical deaths2Carlos E.R.
2 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii ii `- Re: electrical deaths1Don Y
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   ii i+* Re: electrical deaths3Jeroen Belleman
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   ii ii`* Re: electrical deaths2john larkin
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii ii `- Re: electrical deaths1Cursitor Doom
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii i`- Re: electrical deaths1Cursitor Doom
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii `* Re: electrical deaths2Liz Tuddenham
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   ii  `- Re: electrical deaths1Carlos E.R.
1 Dec 24 i  i  i   i`- Re: electrical deaths1Cursitor Doom
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   +- Re: electrical deaths1Liz Tuddenham
30 Nov 24 i  i  i   `- Re: electrical deaths1john larkin
28 Nov 24 i  i  `- Re: electrical deaths1john larkin
28 Nov 24 i  `- Re: electrical deaths1Cursitor Doom
27 Nov 24 +- Re: electrical deaths1Clive Arthur
27 Nov 24 +* Re: electrical deaths8Ralph Mowery
27 Nov 24 i`* Re: electrical deaths7Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund
28 Nov 24 i +- Re: electrical deaths1Ralph Mowery
28 Nov 24 i +* Re: electrical deaths2David Lesher
29 Nov 24 i i`- Re: electrical deaths1Carlos E.R.
28 Nov 24 i `* Re: electrical deaths3Lasse Langwadt
28 Nov 24 i  +- Re: electrical deaths1Jeroen Belleman
29 Nov 24 i  `- Re: electrical deaths1Ralph Mowery
28 Nov 24 +* Re: electrical deaths10Carlos E.R.
28 Nov 24 i`* Re: electrical deaths9Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund
28 Nov 24 i `* Re: electrical deaths8john larkin
28 Nov 24 i  `* Re: electrical deaths7Carlos E.R.
28 Nov 24 i   +- Re: electrical deaths1john larkin
28 Nov 24 i   `* Re: electrical deaths5Don Y
28 Nov 24 i    +* Re: electrical deaths2Carlos E.R.
28 Nov 24 i    i`- Re: electrical deaths1Don Y
28 Nov 24 i    `* Re: electrical deaths2David Lesher
28 Nov 24 i     `- Re: electrical deaths1Don Y
30 Nov 24 +* Re: electrical deaths51Joerg
1 Dec 24 i+* Re: electrical deaths6Joerg
1 Dec 24 ii`* Re: electrical deaths5Don Y
1 Dec 24 ii `* Re: electrical deaths4john larkin
1 Dec 24 ii  `* Re: electrical deaths3Joe Gwinn
1 Dec 24 ii   +- Re: electrical deaths1John R Walliker
1 Dec 24 ii   `- Re: electrical deaths1Carlos E.R.
1 Dec 24 i+* Re: electrical deaths3john larkin
1 Dec 24 ii`* Re: electrical deaths2Carlos E.R.
1 Dec 24 ii `- Re: electrical deaths1john larkin
1 Dec 24 i+* Re: electrical deaths3Carlos E.R.
1 Dec 24 i`* Re: electrical deaths38Joe Gwinn
4 Dec 24 `* Re: electrical deaths2Richard Jones

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