Re: A variation on my current mirror low distortion sine wave oscillator - 10dB less distortion and much the same number of components

"Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:vol49p$2vd0d$1@dont-email.me...

On 14/02/2025 1:45 am, Edward Rawde wrote:

"Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:voh7a5$26aqj$1@dont-email.me...

On 10/02/2025 5:18 pm, Bill Sloman wrote:

Basically same idea, but two separate controllable asymmetric current mirrors, rather than one, and no current steering. The
half-wave rectifier still seems to be the source of the distortion in the stabilised output.
>
C25 and C26 take out as much of it as I can. Increasing them - from 15nF to 33nF makes the distortion worse. Splitting the
resistors into three rather than two and adding two more capacitors might help, but what this circuit needs is more insight,
rather than more components.

>
Splitting the resistors did help, and the optimum capacitor value at C25, C26, C27 and C28 turned out to be 4.7nF. The second
and
fifth harmonics were just 80dB below the fundamental and the third 91dB down. Not dramatically good, but respectable.
>
Other changes were less successful - the current mirror approach does suffer from the need to split the waveform in order to
generate the amplitude correction waveform and minimising the 2usec wide switching spikes that show up at cross-over is what it
takes to get it to work tolerably well
>
I've swapped out the LT1115 for the LT1678 - that doesn't seem to suffer from parasitic oscillations in LTSpice 24, so it should
simulate tolerably fast.
>

After fixing line wraps I had to move U1 down into position.
I then noticed an issue with C10 so I converted to ANSI in Notepad++ and saved the file.

>
When I picked up your text file, I noted that C10 (on the output of U4, the LTC6655-1.25 voltage reference) had gone back to 3.3 -
no suffix. I set it back to 3300n(F) and the circuit worked as it did for me with the harmonics mostly 80dB down with the third
harmonic about 91dB down
>

Simulation then failed without giving any clue what was wrong.
But instead of spending hours tracing the problem I removed .ENDS from the BAS70 model.

>
I put it back in again. and it didn't make any difference to my simulation.

It will for anyone else using 24.1.2
I note that the model for MMBF4391 is still present and does not have .ENDS so why should BAS70 need it?
In 24.1.2 you get errors which make no sense and do not mention BAS70.

>

Simulation now runs fine at about 44 ms/s in LTSPice 24.1.2
FFT is approaching 60dB

>
Not having the right value capacitor at C10 usually totally messes it up. We've had that issue before.

C10 is 3.3uF
Changing to 3300n and resimulating makes no difference. Definitely only 60dB difference between 1kHz and 2,3,4,5kHz
Exact circuit I'm simulating (in 24.1.2) included below.

>

Simulated circuit included below.
I can get 80dB by adding an LC tuned circuit to a simple phase shift oscillator of the type which turns up here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sine+wave+oscillator&udm=2

>
Where? There's a lot of stuff there.

Phase shift oscillator with feedback from the collector through CRCRCRCR to the base.

>

No gain control yet but for unknown reasons it does run at constant (unpredictable) amplitude with very critical emitter resistor
adjustment.

>
It's probably relying on the change in current gain with changing collector-base voltage. It is a small effect - the Early
effect - and non-linear.
>

I'm thinking of trying the sample/hold method posted by JM but with real components.
So I need to turn a FET on (not sure for how long yet) at the peaks of the sine wave.

>
Sample and holds tend to put spikes on the supply rails. Keeping them out of the output can take a lot of work.

Yeah I've had that problem before, decades ago.
A capacitively coupled inverted sampling signal was able to sufficiently remove the problem of  the sampling signal appearing in the
output.
But that may not work at 140dB down.

Here is the exact version of your circuit from my most recent simulation of it.

Version 4.1
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SYMATTR InstName C18
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL cap 2368 -1184 R0
SYMATTR InstName C21
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL FerriteBead 2384 -1408 R0
SYMATTR InstName L7
SYMATTR Value 1000n
SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="W�rth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402"
SYMBOL res -480 -1888 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R22
SYMATTR Value 2.49k
SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1
SYMBOL FerriteBead -320 -2384 R0
SYMATTR InstName L8
SYMATTR Value 1000n
SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="W�rth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402"
SYMBOL cap -752 -1984 R0
WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C7
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL FerriteBead -736 -2384 R0
SYMATTR InstName L3
SYMATTR Value 1000n
SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="W�rth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402"
SYMBOL FerriteBead -656 -896 R0
SYMATTR InstName L9
SYMATTR Value 1000n
SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="W�rth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402"
SYMBOL cap -864 -1152 R0
WINDOW 0 46 -5 Left 2
WINDOW 3 50 71 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C23
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL res -160 -1600 R270
WINDOW 0 27 56 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName R26
SYMATTR Value 10.7k
SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1
SYMBOL res -768 -1808 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 4.87k
SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1
SYMBOL cap -784 -1648 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C19
SYMATTR Value 10p
SYMBOL FerriteBead 208 -672 R0
SYMATTR InstName L5
SYMATTR Value 1000n
SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="W�rth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402"
SYMBOL FerriteBead 208 -2384 R0
SYMATTR InstName L6
SYMATTR Value 1000n
SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="W�rth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402"
SYMBOL cap 320 -1968 R0
WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C20
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL cap -96 -816 R0
WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C22
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL References\LTC6655-1.25 2656 -1120 R0
SYMATTR InstName U4
SYMBOL cap -64 -1824 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C9
SYMATTR Value 10p
SYMBOL FerriteBead 672 -1936 R0
SYMATTR InstName L13
SYMATTR Value 1000n
SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="W�rth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402"
SYMBOL cap 800 -1088 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C13
SYMATTR Value 10p
SYMBOL res 2688 -1792 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R12
SYMATTR Value 137k
SYMBOL res 1472 -1776 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 14k
SYMBOL res 1312 -1456 R0
SYMATTR InstName R13
SYMATTR Value 56k
SYMBOL cap 1408 -1392 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 18n
SYMBOL cap 1152 -1856 R0
SYMATTR InstName C12
SYMATTR Value 18n
SYMBOL res 1312 -1568 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R14
SYMATTR Value 14k
SYMBOL Opamps\LT1013 1488 -1632 R0
SYMATTR InstName U6
SYMBOL res 992 -1536 R270
WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName R15
SYMATTR Value 18.7k
SYMBOL res 2144 -1840 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R16
SYMATTR Value 14k
SYMBOL cap 1824 -1872 R0
SYMATTR InstName C14
SYMATTR Value 18n
SYMBOL res 1984 -1584 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R17
SYMATTR Value 14k
SYMBOL Opamps\LT1013 2160 -1648 R0
SYMATTR InstName U7
SYMBOL res 1664 -1552 R270
WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName R18
SYMATTR Value 18.7k
SYMBOL res 1984 -1408 R0
SYMATTR InstName R19
SYMATTR Value 56k
SYMBOL cap 2080 -1344 R0
SYMATTR InstName C24
SYMATTR Value 18n
SYMBOL npn -1504 -1008 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 2N5089
SYMBOL npn -1712 -1008 M0
SYMATTR InstName Q2
SYMATTR Value 2N5089
SYMBOL res 2480 -1792 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R9
SYMATTR Value 17k
SYMBOL res 2512 -1728 R0
SYMATTR InstName R28
SYMATTR Value 68k
SYMBOL cap 320 -1376 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 3.3p
SYMBOL res -1456 -848 R0
SYMATTR InstName R7
SYMATTR Value 330
SYMBOL pnp -1840 -1424 M180
WINDOW 3 84 0 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 2N5087
SYMATTR InstName Q3
SYMBOL res -1792 -2176 R0
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 6.8k
SYMBOL res -1632 -2160 R0
SYMATTR InstName R21
SYMATTR Value 47k
SYMBOL pnp -1296 -1888 R180
WINDOW 3 84 0 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 2N5087
SYMATTR InstName Q7
SYMBOL pnp -1264 -1888 M180
WINDOW 0 57 29 Left 2
WINDOW 3 60 62 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName Q8
SYMATTR Value 2N5087
SYMBOL res -1216 -2176 R0
SYMATTR InstName R24
SYMATTR Value 330
SYMBOL pnp -1264 -1744 M180
WINDOW 0 57 29 Left 2
WINDOW 3 60 62 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName Q9
SYMATTR Value 2N5087
SYMBOL npn -1504 -1200 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q10
SYMATTR Value 2N5089
SYMBOL Opamps\LT1013 -1936 -1536 R0
SYMATTR InstName U9
SYMBOL Opamps\LT1056A 3360 -1088 R0
SYMATTR InstName U10
SYMBOL res 3232 -1328 R0
SYMATTR InstName R25
SYMATTR Value 10k
SYMBOL res 3232 -944 R0
SYMATTR InstName R29
SYMATTR Value 10k
SYMBOL res -976 -1632 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R30
SYMATTR Value 1
SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1
SYMBOL res -560 -1776 R0
SYMATTR InstName R20
SYMATTR Value 108
SYMBOL res -1792 -864 R0
SYMATTR InstName R34
SYMATTR Value 2.7
SYMBOL Opamps\LT1013 -2320 -1744 R0
SYMATTR InstName U11
SYMBOL npn -2224 -1728 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q4
SYMATTR Value 2N5089
SYMBOL res -2176 -1104 R0
SYMATTR InstName R23
SYMATTR Value 6.8k
SYMBOL res -1376 -2176 R0
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 2.7
SYMBOL res -1072 -2160 R0
SYMATTR InstName R27
SYMATTR Value 47k
SYMBOL res -2176 -912 R0
SYMATTR InstName R31
SYMATTR Value 6.8k
SYMBOL cap -2048 -960 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C25
SYMATTR Value 4.7n
SYMBOL res -1792 -2016 R0
SYMATTR InstName R32
SYMATTR Value 6.8k
SYMBOL cap -1824 -2048 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C26
SYMATTR Value 4.7n
SYMBOL res -1792 -1760 R0
SYMATTR InstName R33
SYMATTR Value 6.8k
SYMBOL cap -1824 -1872 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C27
SYMATTR Value 4.7n
SYMBOL res -2176 -1296 R0
SYMATTR InstName R35
SYMATTR Value 6.8k
SYMBOL cap -2048 -1152 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C28
SYMATTR Value 4.7n
SYMBOL res -2272 -1440 R0
SYMATTR InstName R36
SYMATTR Value 12000k
SYMBOL res -1712 -2400 R0
SYMATTR InstName R37
SYMATTR Value 12000k
SYMBOL Opamps\LT1678 -656 -1408 R0
SYMATTR InstName U3
SYMBOL Opamps\LT1678 -176 -1520 R0
SYMATTR InstName U8
TEXT 2712 -2168 Left 2 !.MODEL BAS70L D \n+ IS = 3.22E-9 \n+ N = 1.018 \n+ BV = 77 \n+ IBV = 1.67E-7 \n+ RS = 20.89 \n+ CJO =
1.608E-12 \n+ VJ = 0.3891 \n+ M = 0.3683 \n+ FC = 0.5 \n+ EG = 0.69 \n+ XTI = 2
TEXT 1232 -472 Left 2 ;R2 a,b,c, Vishay Beschlag  ACAS06S0830372P1AT precision 10k resistor array \n R1a, R1b Maxim
MAX5492LB10000+T  10K resistive divider in a  SOT-23-5 package
TEXT 1624 -536 Left 2 !.MODEL MMBF4391 NJF VTO=-4.6 BETA=0.02779 LAMBDA=0.00595 RD=1 RS=1 IS=1e-14 CGD=14p CGS=10.5p PB=1 B=1
KF=1e-18 AF=1 FC=0.5 mfg=Motorola
TEXT 1232 -536 Left 2 !.tran 0 10s 0s startup