Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.

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Sujet : Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.
De : erichpwagner (at) *nospam* hotmail.com (piglet)
Groupes : sci.electronics.design
Date : 10. May 2025, 18:40:27
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Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vvo32b$3lauj$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1
User-Agent : NewsTap/5.5 (iPhone/iPod Touch)
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
One of my LinkedIn contacts - an IEEE contact in this case - posted some
new data on LinkedIn, from a "Simon Gallagher, Managing Director at UK
Networks Services | CEng | FIET | FEI | MBA "
 
"We have had an update from ENTSO-E on the Spanish complete power
failure. It is limited, but it helps to build the picture. I have
updated our charts with the new information.
 
Updated timeline:
 
1. Large generators in the South of Spain started to trip at 12:32:57
CET. Over a period of 20 seconds a total of 2.2GW was lost – this is
well beyond largest infeed so not secured against
 
2. The frequency looks to have been contained by system reserves until
what looks like a large trip at 12:33:16
 
3. At this stage, the frequency falls at about 0.5 Hz/s for 4 seconds,
until a rapid collapse starts
 
4. By 12:33:21 the frequency has crashed to 48 Hz. At this stage the AC
interconnectors to France trip
 
5. Low Frequency Disconnect was activated, but looks to have had no
effect because 3 seconds later the system has collapsed completely
 
6. At 12:33:24 the system has completely collapsed, 27 seconds after the
first trip.
 
Some key comments from me:
- LFDD/UFLS seems to have had no impact on the fall of frequency, I
suspect RoCoF relays were operating by this stage, showing how unstable
the grid was
 
- I suspect a lack of rotating mass did mean that there was not enough
time for LFDD to have an impact
 
- A large divergence of frequency opened up between Spain and France for
about 5 seconds. This must have meant a very large phase angle and large
power flows
 
- The previous data that showed the frequency only dropping to 49 Hz
must have been a result of local generators kicking in where the
Gridradar devices were connected to the network (UPDATE this has now
been confirmed by Gridrader, their sensor in Malaga was switched over to
a UPS and then generator at 12:33:20.7, prior to the disconnection of
the Iberian Peninsula and therefore missing some of the frequency drop)"
 
I haven't cut and pasted all of it. This paragraph struck me as interesting.
 
"While I think a lack of inertia had an impact here, that does not mean
that the level of solar and wind was to blame - rather it is how it has
been integrated - more grid forming inverters, more rotating mass is
needed, I suspect."
 

Fascinating. Thanks. That ties in with my earlier post wondering if older
inverters with too strict rocof cutoffs were at least partially responsible
for collapse.

--
piglet

Date Sujet#  Auteur
10 May 25 * The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.107Bill Sloman
10 May 25 +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.94John Robertson
10 May 25 i+- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
10 May 25 i+* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.85Don Y
10 May 25 ii+* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.83john larkin
11 May 25 iii+- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
11 May 25 iii+* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.6Bill Sloman
11 May 25 iiii+- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Don Y
11 May 25 iiii+* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2john larkin
11 May 25 iiiii`- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
11 May 25 iiii`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2Bill Sloman
12 May 25 iiii `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
11 May 25 iii+* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.3Don Y
11 May 25 iiii`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2Carlos E.R.
11 May 25 iiii `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Don Y
12 May 25 iii+* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.32Theo
12 May 25 iiii`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.31Don Y
12 May 25 iiii +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.3piglet
12 May 25 iiii i`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2Don Y
12 May 25 iiii i `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1john larkin
12 May 25 iiii +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.25Jeroen Belleman
13 May 25 iiii i`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.24Don Y
14 May 25 iiii i +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.15Carlos E.R.
15 May 25 iiii i i`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.14Bill Sloman
15 May 25 iiii i i `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.13Carlos E.R.
15 May 25 iiii i i  +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.3Carlos E.R.
15 May 25 iiii i i  i`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2Jeroen Belleman
16 May 25 iiii i i  i `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Carlos E.R.
15 May 25 iiii i i  `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.9john larkin
15 May 25 iiii i i   `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.8Bill Sloman
16 May 25 iiii i i    `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.7Liz Tuddenham
16 May 25 iiii i i     +- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Carlos E.R.
16 May 25 iiii i i     +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2john larkin
16 May 25 iiii i i     i`- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
17 May03:15 iiii i i     `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.3KevinJ93
17 May13:39 iiii i i      `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2Joe Gwinn
17 May17:42 iiii i i       `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Don Y
14 May 25 iiii i `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.8Don Y
15 May 25 iiii i  `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.7Jeroen Belleman
15 May 25 iiii i   `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.6Martin Brown
15 May 25 iiii i    `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.5Don Y
15 May 25 iiii i     `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.4Don Y
18 May06:25 iiii i      `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.3Don Y
18 May17:13 iiii i       `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2KevinJ93
18 May20:38 iiii i        `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Don Y
12 May 25 iiii `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2john larkin
13 May 25 iiii  `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
12 May 25 iii`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.40john larkin
12 May 25 iii +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2Martin Brown
13 May 25 iii i`- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1KevinJ93
13 May 25 iii `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.37Bill Sloman
13 May 25 iii  `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.36Carlos E.R.
13 May 25 iii   `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.35john larkin
13 May 25 iii    `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.34Bill Sloman
13 May 25 iii     +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.3Liz Tuddenham
14 May 25 iii     i`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2john larkin
14 May 25 iii     i `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
13 May 25 iii     `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.30Carlos E.R.
14 May 25 iii      `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.29john larkin
14 May 25 iii       +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.27Carlos E.R.
14 May 25 iii       i`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.26john larkin
15 May 25 iii       i +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.20Phil Hobbs
15 May 25 iii       i i+* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2Jeroen Belleman
15 May 25 iii       i ii`- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Carlos E.R.
15 May 25 iii       i i+- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1john larkin
15 May 25 iii       i i`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.16Joe Gwinn
15 May 25 iii       i i +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.10john larkin
15 May 25 iii       i i i+- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
16 May 25 iii       i i i+* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.6Jeroen Belleman
16 May 25 iii       i i ii`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.5john larkin
16 May 25 iii       i i ii +- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
16 May 25 iii       i i ii `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.3Jeroen Belleman
16 May 25 iii       i i ii  `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2john larkin
16 May 25 iii       i i ii   `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
17 May01:46 iii       i i i`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2Carlos E. R.
18 May18:19 iii       i i i `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1john larkin
15 May 25 iii       i i +- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Phil Hobbs
15 May 25 iii       i i +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.3Liz Tuddenham
15 May 25 iii       i i i+- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1john larkin
15 May 25 iii       i i i`- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Joe Gwinn
15 May 25 iii       i i `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
15 May 25 iii       i +- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
15 May 25 iii       i `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.4Carlos E.R.
15 May 25 iii       i  +- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Jeroen Belleman
15 May 25 iii       i  `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2john larkin
15 May 25 iii       i   `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
15 May 25 iii       `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
11 May 25 ii`- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
12 May 25 i`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.7Martin Brown
12 May 25 i +- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
12 May 25 i `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.5Carlos E.R.
12 May 25 i  +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.3Joe Gwinn
13 May 25 i  i`* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2Carlos E.R.
13 May 25 i  i `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1john larkin
13 May 25 i  `- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Don Y
10 May 25 +- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1piglet
10 May 25 +* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.2john larkin
11 May 25 i`- Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.1Bill Sloman
14 May 25 `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.9Carlos E.R.
14 May 25  `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.8Joe Gwinn
15 May 25   `* Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.7Carlos E.R.

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