Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.

john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:

On Sat, 10 May 2025 11:22:20 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
 

On 5/10/2025 9:58 AM, John Robertson wrote:

Perhaps for systems that have large solar or wind arrays they could use a
number of large rotating masses to smooth over these burps? Vacuum and magnetic
bearings...
 
I imagine a series of rotating masses so if any single or several fail
(earthquake, etc.) the system wouldn't collapse.
 
As you say, there is little inertia in these solar systems unlike water or fuel
generated power.

>
The sun is *still* shining.  Why can't *it* supply the power
to all of the distributed inverters around the country at the
appropriate phase angle?  You only need storage if your
actual source of power disappears, relative to the load.
>
I.e., turn excess generation capacity to "braking mass"

 
If every solar inverter was networked and controlled in
voltage/current/phase angle, by some intelligent system controller,
one might not be so dependant on rotating mass.
 
As solar and wind get to be dominant, micromanagement of power sources
and loads will be necessary to ensure uptime.

A naive question: why do we need to get these signals from the grid at all?
Why can't we broadcast a synchronisation message on something like LW radio
that is picked up by every generator large or small?  Then the network
operator can monitor what's happening and adjust the signal as appropriate.

No need for internet connectivity means no problems with network delays,
only the speed of RF from one end of the country to the other.  You would of
course have multiple transmitter sites - they would cost in terms of power
to run, but compared with grid power it's tiny.  (before anyone says you
cannae get the transmitters any more, yes you can - Nautel will sell you
a new one)

Or is the problem that we actually do need slight desynchronisation - some
parts of the network become overloaded and need to 'slow down' compared with
other parts? (and they do that by phase differences rather than voltage
sag)  In which case the frequency differences follow the network topology
and the power flows.

Theo