Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.

On 5/14/25 23:35, Don Y wrote:

On 5/14/2025 7:16 AM, Glen Walpert wrote:

On Tue, 13 May 2025 07:50:36 -0700, Don Y wrote:
>

On 5/13/2025 6:26 AM, Glen Walpert wrote:

I don't think that using broadcast radio for real time mains grid
control is a good idea. It would be far too unreliable.

>
Point to point RF links have been in use in (mostly hard wired) grid
control SCADA (System Control And Data Acquisition) systems for at
least 30 years, which is when a former employer did some work on a
SCADA upgrade project for the Egyptian Electrical Authority.  A search
on 'SCADA radio link' will turn up several vendors.

>
And they used these to control instantaneous frequency and phase?  Or,
just coarse data collection and /supervisory/ control?

>
SCADA is used to monitor and control the grid, where control is done in
real time by adjusting the set points for real and reactive power at all
controlled power sources.  A small percentage of sources being
inaccessible degrades control by an insignificant amount.

 "Real-time" means different things to different applications.
 I took Theo's upthread suggestion to mean broadcasting a *reference*
that all genertors would track -- instead of using the actual power line,
itself.  I.e., the spain event could have been avoided if such a broadcast
reference were used by each generator DISREGARDING THE ACTUAL POWER SIGNAL.
[...]

Sounds like a perfect recipe to blow things up. No individual
generator can pretend to force the grid. Either they track
or they trip.
Driving power into the grid only makes sense in reference to
what is happening at the injection point.
Jeroen Belleman