Re: Official German spelling update

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Sujet : Re: Official German spelling update
De : ram (at) *nospam* zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
Groupes : sci.lang
Date : 15. Jul 2024, 20:19:09
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Stefan Ram
Message-ID : <Vielen-20240715201141@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Antonio Marques <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote or quoted:
It still sounds odd to me. Christian says Dank is to be read as a mass
noun, but I can't quite make that work.

  So, I guess this, er . . . I wasn't initially aware that this
  case needed more attention than your usual combo of two words!

  Behind "vielen" ("many") usually stands a countable noun,
  like in, "Bei vielen Adjektiven ist eine Steigerung . . ."
  ("In the case of many adjectives, a gradation . . .").

  When we want to express a high degree of something with an
  uncountable masculine noun, we say "viel". For example, "Viel
  Erfolg!" ("Much success!"), or "Viel Spaß!" ("Much fun!"). (From,
  "Ich wünsche Ihnen viel Erfolg!" ["I wish you every success!"] and,
  "Ich wünsche Ihnen viel Spaß! ["I wish you lots of fun!"].)

  So, it should be "Viel Dank!" ("Much thank!") - this isn't a wish,
  but it should also be in the accusative, as it would probably be
  shortened from "Ich sage Ihnen viel Dank!" ("I'm expressing to you
  much thank!"), where it would need to be in the accusative.

  If "Dank" was countable, we'd probably say *"Ich sagen Ihnen viele
  Danke!" ("I'm giving you many thanks."), so not "vielen" either.
  (Nowadays, "thanks" is considered a noun with no plural.)

  Nobody knows why the formula "Vielen Dank!" got stuck and
  is used instead of "Viel Dank!". And since we don't really
  understand the expression "Vielen Dank!" we can't analyze
  it further. It's opaque to us.

  Anywho, my initial response was way off base - I clearly
  underestimated the complexity of your query. My bad on that one!

Date Sujet#  Auteur
9 Jul 24 * Official German spelling update29Christian Weisgerber
10 Jul 24 +- Re: Official German spelling update1HenHanna
13 Jul 24 +* Re: Official German spelling update2Paul Carmichael
13 Jul 24 i`- Re: Official German spelling update1HenHanna
13 Jul 24 `* Re: Official German spelling update25Christian Weisgerber
13 Jul 24  `* Re: Official German spelling update24Aidan Kehoe
14 Jul 24   `* Re: Official German spelling update23Christian Weisgerber
14 Jul 24    `* Re: Official German spelling update22Antonio Marques
14 Jul 24     +* Re: Official German spelling update19Stefan Ram
14 Jul 24     i`* Re: Official German spelling update18Ruud Harmsen
15 Jul 24     i `* Re: Official German spelling update17Antonio Marques
15 Jul 24     i  +* Re: Official German spelling update15Stefan Ram
15 Jul 24     i  i+- Re: Official German spelling update1Stefan Ram
15 Jul 24     i  i`* Re: Official German spelling update13Stefan Ram
15 Jul 24     i  i +* Re: Official German spelling update2Stefan Ram
15 Jul 24     i  i i`- Re: Official German spelling update1Stefan Ram
16 Jul 24     i  i `* Re: Official German spelling update10Ruud Harmsen
16 Jul 24     i  i  +* Re: Official German spelling update8Antonio Marques
16 Jul 24     i  i  i`* Re: Official German spelling update7Stefan Ram
16 Jul 24     i  i  i +- Re: Official German spelling update1Helmut Richter
16 Jul 24     i  i  i `* Re: Official German spelling update5Stefan Ram
17 Jul 24     i  i  i  `* Re: Official German spelling update4Antonio Marques
17 Jul 24     i  i  i   +* Re: Official German spelling update2Stefan Ram
17 Jul 24     i  i  i   i`- Re: Official German spelling update1Stefan Ram
17 Jul 24     i  i  i   `- Re: Official German spelling update1Christian Weisgerber
16 Jul 24     i  i  `- Re: Official German spelling update1Antonio Marques
15 Jul 24     i  `- Re: Official German spelling update1Christian Weisgerber
14 Jul 24     +- Re: Official German spelling update1Christian Weisgerber
14 Jul 24     `- Re: Official German spelling update1Ruud Harmsen

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