Re: Official German spelling update

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Sujet : Re: Official German spelling update
De : ram (at) *nospam* zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
Groupes : sci.lang
Date : 16. Jul 2024, 16:43:27
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Stefan Ram
Message-ID : <viel-20240716164311@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Antonio Marques <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote or quoted:
So I rather thought it was a fossil form, possibly misanalyzed to the
mondegreen point, maybe even missing a syllable at the end, or /dank/ not
even being originally the noun form.

  In 2009, Melanie Löber wondered, "Could 'viel' have been
  inflected more in the past, so that "vielen Dank" represents
  a fossilized form from earlier times?".

|Now one could assume that "viel" was possibly inflected more
|in the past and gradually lost its inflectional forms.
|According to our sources, however, the opposite is the case:
|both Hermann Paul's "Mittelhochdeutschen Grammatik" and the
|"Deutschen Wörterbuch" of the Grimm Brothers assume that
|"viel" (or the Middle High German vil) was originally used as
|a noun that entailed a partitive genitive. As you can see
|from the following examples, this usage persisted well beyond
|Middle High German.
|
|Examples
|
|so ein mensch hat hie erlitten vil unglücks
|(H. Sachs, 16th century)
|
|viel glücks! ich will euch denn nur hier verlassen
|(G. E. Lessing, late 18th century)
|
|viel danks für dein andenken
|(C. M. Wieland, late 18th century)
|
|Subsequently, the noun could have developed into an article
|word that corresponds to today's uninflected "viel".
|In addition, a few forms of "viel" that were inflected like
|adjectives are already attested in Middle High German texts.
|
|However, why the inflected forms are used in certain
|constructions and the uninflected forms in others does not lie
|in German grammar itself, but in language use, i.e., all
|speakers and writers of German decide together which usage
|prevails. And in the case of "vielen Dank", they have evidently
|decided in favor of the inflected form of "viel" in deviation
|from the general rule.
|
Melanie Löber in 2009.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
9 Jul 24 * Official German spelling update29Christian Weisgerber
10 Jul 24 +- Re: Official German spelling update1HenHanna
13 Jul 24 +* Re: Official German spelling update2Paul Carmichael
13 Jul 24 i`- Re: Official German spelling update1HenHanna
13 Jul 24 `* Re: Official German spelling update25Christian Weisgerber
13 Jul 24  `* Re: Official German spelling update24Aidan Kehoe
14 Jul 24   `* Re: Official German spelling update23Christian Weisgerber
14 Jul 24    `* Re: Official German spelling update22Antonio Marques
14 Jul 24     +* Re: Official German spelling update19Stefan Ram
14 Jul 24     i`* Re: Official German spelling update18Ruud Harmsen
15 Jul 24     i `* Re: Official German spelling update17Antonio Marques
15 Jul 24     i  +* Re: Official German spelling update15Stefan Ram
15 Jul 24     i  i+- Re: Official German spelling update1Stefan Ram
15 Jul 24     i  i`* Re: Official German spelling update13Stefan Ram
15 Jul 24     i  i +* Re: Official German spelling update2Stefan Ram
15 Jul 24     i  i i`- Re: Official German spelling update1Stefan Ram
16 Jul 24     i  i `* Re: Official German spelling update10Ruud Harmsen
16 Jul 24     i  i  +* Re: Official German spelling update8Antonio Marques
16 Jul 24     i  i  i`* Re: Official German spelling update7Stefan Ram
16 Jul 24     i  i  i +- Re: Official German spelling update1Helmut Richter
16 Jul 24     i  i  i `* Re: Official German spelling update5Stefan Ram
17 Jul 24     i  i  i  `* Re: Official German spelling update4Antonio Marques
17 Jul 24     i  i  i   +* Re: Official German spelling update2Stefan Ram
17 Jul 24     i  i  i   i`- Re: Official German spelling update1Stefan Ram
17 Jul 24     i  i  i   `- Re: Official German spelling update1Christian Weisgerber
16 Jul 24     i  i  `- Re: Official German spelling update1Antonio Marques
15 Jul 24     i  `- Re: Official German spelling update1Christian Weisgerber
14 Jul 24     +- Re: Official German spelling update1Christian Weisgerber
14 Jul 24     `- Re: Official German spelling update1Ruud Harmsen

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