Re: PTD was the most-respected of the AUE regulars ...

On Mon, 29 Jul 2024 19:37:32 +0100, Hibou
<vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

Le 29/07/2024 à 17:21, Rich Ulrich a écrit :

Hibou wrote:

>
In Usenet forums, I don't think deliberate lying is much of a problem,
but people are often mistaken. It's hard to admit that one is in error;
it throws doubt on one's ability. Also, our beliefs are part of who we
are; to let one go is to lose part of oneself.

 
You are still missing the idea that autistics often 'relate
differently' to the idea of truth vs. falsehood; 'innocent mistake' is
not in their working vocabulary.

>
Is it not?
>
Perhaps there has been some drift in this discussion. I think its
starting point was your message
<news:fk8aajpcod5eeq8okojbonqtslbnujm92m@4ax.com> (Sat. 27th at 12:52:19
-0400) in which you described a character who refused to admit error and
called contradictors stupid and liars. You went on to infer that he
therefore had autism.
>
I think this inference is shaky.

No, my remark about Stupid and Liars was 'additional commentary'
rather than 'inference.'  And I gave the interpretation I eventually
came to, of when he used the words Stupid or Liar.

Cut-and-paste (and re-wrap):
   Also typical for the autistic spectrum --he frequently called
   people 'stupid' and 'liar'. STUPID meant he didn't understand what
   was said, and LIAR meant he thought it was 'obviously' wrong.

He never said, Oh, I see how you make that mistake.

>
I've been called stupid countless times, especially in Usenet fora, and
met many who have clung to demonstrably false beliefs (dear old
fr.soc.religion in its heyday!) - too many, I think, to infer that they
were all suffering from some syndrome or other. It's just human nature,
innit?

I will repeat, neurotypicals (NTs) and Aspies overlap a lot. But when
a person shows a bunch of separate, rare traits ... that is what
adds up to a diagnosis. And, How often does a behavior show up?
 
I counted at one time -- in a month, Bob called 11 different people
Stupid or Liar.  Or it might have been about that many for each
word (it's been a long time). Do you excuse that as 'human nature'?

I found myself interacting with him a lot because I had sort of taken
on the task of a monitor in the stats groups, and he was prone to
(even) start out, like, "You must be stupid to ask THAT."  This was
from a guy who spent his working life as a college professor who
was not well liked by his students (and there is another story,
there).

>
Citation du jour : « Passer pour un idiot aux yeux d'un imbécile est un
délice de fin gourmet » - Simenon (ou Courteline, peut-être, formulée
autrement ; les sources se contredisent).
>

I don't know how much of their problem is created or influenced
by the aftermath of their own social ineptness -- a feature
have not been discussing. The Usenet autism group once posted
a note by a woman who said that her child's kindergarten teacher
praised the daughter for her 'maturity' since she never joined in
when kids were bullying or hassling. The teacher did not
recognize that the daughter was not mature, she simply did not
UNDERSTAND why the  bullying was taking place; she did not
join in automatically, because she did not fit in.
 
Aspies are not insulted by the same things neurotypicals
consider insulting, so they make social mistakes. They get called
Stupid or Liar when they claim they did not UNDERSTAND that
someone would (or would not) be offended by something.
" - Okay, you insulted my shirt.  My mama picked it out, not me.
Why should I be offended?"  Or the Aspie might insult a shirt,
while imagining they were offering a trivial observation. [...]

>
Goodness me! I am learning a lot. (I have Asperger's myself.)

You're welcome?

--
Rich Ulrich