e

title: Full version: Another year and Moshiach isn’t here…
link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HiM4UZ-RLY&t=106s
source: Israel Torah

Someone wrote:

 Even during 1940 moshiach didnt come

Reply: ...

Well, I wrote a lot of the usual, but seem to have failed to copy/paste
it fast enough, and now youtube (Google) is even hiding my own reply
from me.

It doesn't really matter though, if the sencorship becomes even more
extreme soon, or if they will disable the entire Internet and mop up the
few remaining places of free expression because the masses can only
focus on what everyone else is focussing on (the fraudulent mass media,
owned by the Plutocracy). It doesn't really matter, because people made
their choice for the lies already.

There has been enough time of free speech and debate, to see that if there
was a large enough amount of people capable and willing to be honest
and care for the truth, something should have happened by now. Nothing
happened, the lies keep going strong, and this is simply because the vast
(vast) majority does not care about anything regarding serious topics
of the system, of politics, etc.

If it takes this long to admit the truth, such a people cannot live in a
society based on equality and talking to each other. They are either too
evil, or too stupid, or both, and that will destroy everything sooner or
later. Dictatorship is also not an option, although it at least causes
people to learn discipline. The discipline to listen that is, and the
skills to deal with logic to a sufficient degree, like ...

  Do not pay debt with more debt, because that is an escalating amount
  of debt which eventually leads to your complete bankruptcy (assuming
  debt is on interest, which it typically is).

They can already not deal with this, and that is on the top level of
society. They cannot deal with a statement like this (see the National
debt, which is exactly: paying debt with more debt, and which proves
this society is insane, or has insanity at its core). How can you have a
society with this kind of people ? The answer is: only temporarily.
Temporarily until the madness breaks out again, in whatever form:
Tyranny, war, hysteria, economic collapse, etc.

 *

Anyway, the gist of my reply above was: don't blame the moshiach, blame
yourselves (etc. etc.). The "onus" is put on the moshiach, rather than
on Israel following the Torah, or refusing to. I am wondering if this is
going to be a new movement within Israel, especially after the second
holocaust (7 times worse) has happened, and they realize that there is
no 'moshiach' to save them, because they do not want to do truth and
justice. They cannot be saved, because they are themselves the
destroyers.

How do you save pyromaniacs from their own fire ? You can do it for a
while maybe, watch them closely, but eventually things must return to
their own nature, their own will. You cannot watch people 100% of the
time, into infinity, forever. That itself would be a bad thing, a
dictatorship or worse. You can save the pyromaniacs, if you can teach
them that fire hurts. You let them set fire, and you let them get hurt
by it. Maybe they learn, maybe they will learn later. Once they learned,
they can be saved: they are not pyromaniacs anymore, they do not set
everyhing on fire anymore.

This is how it is with Israel. They are pyromaniacs of sorts, who set
injustice in their own society. This is not about a comparison with the
gentiles, who are worse. This is about the stability of that society,
regardless of what is outside of it - be that masses of gentiles, or
nothing but wilderness and no humans.

There is basically two levels of fraud with the prosbul:
1. Breaking the law of the 7th year debt forgiveness.
2. Pretending that this law breaking is not law breaking.

I don't know which is worse, but the first one could be called a crime
of greed, of menace to your own people (the poor), while the second can
be called a crime of lying, of deception, of creating ideological
confusion, chaos in the head. The first crime hurts the poor directly:
their loans are no longer cancelled (spare me the babble that at least
now they get loans, to give loans is already an obligation which can and
should be enforced where necessary). The second crime hurts the good,
the moral (the Tzadikim, the Jewish people might perhaps say, although I
can't believe anyone can be called by this name while holding to the
prosbul as real). If it doesn't hurt the Tzadikim by definition, because
they would see through the lie immideately, then it could still hurt
less developed people who want to be good. They may get confused and
their lives of becoming better may to a degree be derailed. They think
they do the Torah, they want to do the Torah, they even want to
sacrifice for the Torah including money, but they get derailed by the
Rabbis who tell them this lie. They then conduct this lie as part of
their lives (they conduct a prosbul, in such a manner that the loan is
going to be repaid past the 7 year), and then unwittingly they become
part of this Rabbinical system of crime.

THis is a form of pyromania, so to say. It sets fires against the peace.
They do it themselves, and therefore it becomes meaningless to put such
people into a nice spot, as they will burn it down themselves. It is
better that they live within the burned out ruins of what has been
burned before, to learn about the pain and suffering caused by
pyromania, until they stop wanting to set such fires (fires to burn down
people their houses and such, is what I mean; this is all about the face
value meaning). There is where the Jewish people are living: a world so
insane they have put paying debt with debt at the core of their society,
and the debt will not be cancelled. The Jewish people are exactly where
they need to be, given their level of law breaking.

HKB'H has put them exactly where they need to be. See the perfection.
It will be *wrong* for any 'moshiach' to help Israel get out of this
problem, and put them for example in Paradice, in the Geulah
(Redemption), until they give up on their law breaking and their
(feigned?) ignorance about it.

You give the pyromaniac to live in the slums, where burning things down
is not even that bad, until they learn. When they finally give up on
wanting to burn things down, you can give them a lovely cottage with a
straw roof next to a beautiful clear stream in the woods or in a cute
village or town. Then they can live there, and will not themselves
destroy it.

You can argue: ok, but if you put them in a nice spot, and they ruin it
themselves, *then* they have something serious to cry about. Maybe then
they will finally realize the cost of such lies as the prosbul, of
seeking rent on loans from your friends, of not giving people the right
to land, all and forever, etc. Good point ! Exactly that has already
been done: HKB'H took them out of Egypt, and gave them a nice place.
They ruined it themselves, and now they have something to cry about.
Only now they can really appreciate the difference, especially when
things get worse and worse, such as a Nazi holocaust. It increases the
preassure on learning, so to speak.

In other words: it has already all been done, it does not have to be
repeated.

The waiting is on Israel, the whole world is waiting on Israel to redeem
themselves. Meanwhile, the natural concesquences of all this ill
conceived law and behavior will take their effects (together with all
the good that is being done.) Israel is tarrying again, as usual, and as
it was in the beginning. I can understand a lot of that (to be honest),
but what I do not understand is the lies on the official top level of
society, where things like the prosbul dare to show themselves in print,
can be discussed widely and on the highest level of that society, yet
remain or become accepted as good and true.

If someone doesn't make a loan they should have, or doesn't cancel a loan
they should have, all of that is just how life goes, and sometimes
punishment will have to be effectuated (law enforcement). I can also
understand how law enforcement can become corrupted at times and places,
or event entire Nations or worse. I can also understand it if a people
fall under a Tyrant, enforced by a blood thirsty army with no way out,
that they will just have to go with whatever the crazies of power are
telling them, because otherwise it is dungeons and death for them.

What I cannot comprehend is how the Jewish people have nothing to fear
right now and at many times in the past it was the same, and they have
been spread out so much in so many small pockets, yet they still accept
an obvious lie like the prosbul on the highest level of their society,
with a straight face as if they are serious - they seem to be serious !
(what a joke). Moreover, the Islam is against their rent seeking as
well, and so in many cases is the idolatry religion of the Roman Empire,
and even the Communists hate the bankers the most. There seems to be a
lot of pressure on the Jewish people exactly in the right direction.
They are not forced by a tyrant, as far as I can see, to force the
prosbul down their throat, or the heter iska, at least not since the
corrupt 2nd Temple was destroyed (which in this view, you could see as a
liberation, liberation from a power core which had turned *against* the
Torah, so that you can return to the Torah again, without fear).

This is exactly what I am asking: to stop lying about the ideal. To what
degree and how the 7th year debt cancellation needs to be enforced is a
whole other topic, and also important. However first things first, and
most importantly: the ideal, clean and good, needs to be that what it
is, so that at least those who want to choose to follow that ideal, are
not confused. You can choose against that ideal (not be Jewish) or you
can follow it (be Jewish or follow their ways), and you don't have to
deal with the more or less oficial power in your society (now the Rabbis
to a degree ta least), who are damaging that effort (!).

It should be like so: in case the Rabbis do not have much of any real
power (which I guess is how it is in the exile, they are not official
Sovereign courts, so to say), they could at least *stimulate* good
behavior in their people, and if someone wants to make a loan to the
poor and then cancells it in the 7th year, then the Rabbi can say: very
good, that is the Torah !. Then if someone makes a prosbul on a loan and
demands it back from a poor brothen after the 7th year, then the Rabbi
can say: not good, this is not the Torah ! Even if he has no other
power, at least he has that power, and thus the people who care about
the Torah can flock together and be good.

Now it goes quite differently: the Rabbi is actively involved in ruining
the Torah finance system, with this prosbul and heter iska nonsense.
Actively part of the destroyers of society. This is not about edge
cases, or difficult cases. This is about the ideal itself, which they
took down.

Therefore, I think, the 2nd Temple had to be destroyed. They where
supposed to be a center of spreading the ideal, regardless of if the
Chinese or the people in south America or near the North pole where
(yet) caring about what they where doing. They where supposed to be
there, doing good. Spreading the good within the Jewish people, also
regardless of if the Jewish people listened (completely) to that ideal.
They where supposed to spread the ideal. Once they broke that down, it
was the beginning of it being a source of destruction instead. Heaven
did the Jewish peole a favor by destroying it, because if they had not,
perhaps besides the corruptions like the prosbul, there would be 10 more
such breaches of law created by high priests straight from the 2nd
Temple, which would rage on right to today (probably most of them having
to do with making the rich more rich, and the poor more poor and
servile, which is the typical direction of corruption in a Nation: greed
and dominance, a form of violence).

The land also *has to be distributed*, which is probably more important.
The land may not be sold in perpetuity, like the gentiles do. This is a
grave mistake, and I think it is *the major* mistake which the gentiles
are making in their Nations (while the major mistake of Israel seems to
be their idolatry, in the form of calling for a King.) These are (the)
two great powers in society: the economy, and the State. They also both
need to keep each other in a balance.

For the State, the commission tasked by the people to take care of the
common good that is, it must be ruled out of the concent and agreement
of the people, and (obviously) act in their benefit (all who live there,
except bandits and criminals of course). To have a form of common
decision making by speaking to each other (voting if you will), this is
good. This is the way it naturally works, even if you task one person
with a job. This is how natural and acceptable human decision making in
groups works. You get together, you talk and decide, and/or may decide
to put certain people to a certain task, even if that task is to be
dictator. In small groups that always means the dictator can be removed
at any moment, as the whole arrangement is fairly casual. In Nations,
things take on a more severe dimension, and so ... you better beware
with asking for a dictator (King), to keep the (ultimate) power to
yourselves. This is the way of the State. It is a negotiation kind of
thing.

The economy is a trade kind of thing, production, supply, demand, agreed
sales, etc. It is an enormous field of activity, dynamic and open ended,
free. The critical aspect is that people can start offering their
product, or their service (which is really the same thing), is that they
are free. Free to start, free to stop. For this to happen, people need
their land, for free, in purpetuity.

The State then combats crime within the economy, and the economy
provides a cleansing mechanism unto the State by enduring its decisions
and having the capacity to impact the State (because the economy is also
the people, and (probably) the vast majority of them, or it should
probably be so (I think it should be so)).

A sickness in the economy is when things centralize too much: too big
companies, too powerful rich (is basically what it means). A similar
sickness can happen in the State: a measure of control by people who
act against the best interest of the people, and are hard to get rid off
by that people (you could call it corruption). These two sicknesses are
one sickness: centralization of power, abuse of power. The ignorance of
the masses is a feeding ground of this sickness. It comes up when the
masses are themselves fairly ill behaved: careless, greedy, dumb,
ignorant, evil, etc.

Prosbul, heter iska and failing to keep the Jubilee on land, are how
this sickness expresses itself in Israel, together with corrupt Kings
and temple cliques, etc. Corrupt Rabbis nowadays, you could say,
although most of them hopefully just get taught wrong, and lack the
courage and honesty to stand up to it.

 *

P.S.

Regarding the future: nothing seems to have changed. The path is towards
more corruption, more centralization of power, and more war, until it
all blows up into a global nuclear war (very likely, in my opinion).
We will see how (morally) dark it gets eventually. We can expect all
kinds of craziness in terms of weapons / surveilance used for both war
and Tyranny. It can especially get crazy (I think) in a few decades,
when the technology is again more jumps more sophisticated. You can get
all kinds of science fiction like scenarios, with automated robotic
systems to enforce whatever the criminals of power want, and sooner or
later it can get so wild (from todays perspective), that making a
science fiction movie about it today would be impossible because it
would just be such an insane and unbelievable scenario and world - that
things could become so bizarre (from our perspective).

So long as the criminals ultimately remain in power, remain extremely
rich that is (or so long as society allows a few people to be so
extemely rich, which is saying the same thing), the ultimate direction
is extremely worrying, not only from a peace versus war or tranquility
versus tyranny perspective, but even the sheer survival of humanity in
anything resembling its current form. The crazies of money andf power
are in power, there is not enough pressure against it, the good and wise
are far removed from taking over the initiative.

Still, with all this doom & gloom: a lot of people do small good things
in the world, and this should provide a great resistance against things
going too wrong for too long. Therefore there is great hope that in the
end, *everything will be allright* [que Bob Marley tune here]. The end
;-). lol

In conclusion then: Everything is perfect, and everything will be
allright ;-).

(Why do I even write all these rants, when nobody cares. Everything has
already been said, and there is nothing to add to it, not even if the
Redemption where to happen or already happened. Everything is said
already, and even that has been said already many times.)

--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl