title: Machiah Depends on Whom?
source: CHEVRATPINTO
link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTAK2vdySNYHere is a whole video of the traditional (I suppose) position, that
'moshiach' and the Redemption do *not* depend on 'moshiach', because
'moshiach' is ready *today*. There is the famous story, related again in
above linked video, where someone goes to ask 'moshiach', "when he will be
coming", and 'moshiach' answers "today", but then (supposedly) does not
come. The person who asks goes home and prepares for 'moshiach' coming,
it sounds like he is preparing some kind of party, but then nothing
happens. The person then goes to ask the ruling prophet of Israel, whom
he also asked when 'moshiach' would come and who told him to go ask
'moshiach' himself, why 'moshiach' didn't come, and the prophet then
says: "he would have come today, if you had listened to his voice." The
Rabbi then goes on to explain that it is not depending on 'moshiach' to
come, but upon Israel to behave well. 'Moshiach is ready every day.
Reply from undersigned to this video ...
Maimonides / Rambam wrote: "12. I believe with complete faith in the
coming of Moshiach, and although *he may tarry,* nevertheless, I wait
every day for him to come." This is Loshon Hara against 'moshiach',
accusing him of tarrying. This is now one of the biggest so-called Sages
in Rabbinical Judaism, who is guilty of spreading Loshon Hara against
'moshiach'. People have taken Loshon Hara, and made it the essence of
their being Jewish. I think it is bad, also because when they blame
'moshiach', they do not blame themselves for doing not enough Torah,
which means they do not understand that the solution is to do more
Torah. When 'moshiach' cannot come thanks to their lawbreaking and bad
behavior, they blame 'moshiach' for that, and may become demoralized in
the Torah generally. I have already seen jokes made against 'moshiach'
that he is tarrying.
Maimonides / Rambam is also guilty of creating the _heter iska,_
which allows rent seeking on loans from another Jew, which is a similar
destruction of the Torah finance system as Hillel the Elder created with
his _prosbul._ Perhaps when Israel finally decides to do Teshuvah for
the _prosbul_ and the _heter iska_ and the _loshon hara_ of Rambam,
and the Sun idolatry at the 2nd Temple called the Lamp of Helena,
perhaps that day the Redemption of Israel has started. If Israel does
not do Teshuvah, the curses section will take effect again eventually:
7 times worse each time. We all know what happened the last time, about
80 years ago. 7 times worse than that, who can survive it ? Redemption
is needed, the bombs got too big. Have a good day.
End quote. Continuing on Usenet ...
Here we see how two faced Rabbinical Judaism has become: on the one hand
they explain why 'moshiach' wants to come any moment (the story with the
bandages in the gates of Rome has the same meaning: 'moshiach' is ready
any moment, when Israel wants to Redeem themselves), but then on the
other hand, the traitor Rambam / Maimonides apparently invented that
moshiach will be tarrying, and not in an obscure place either. It is
right there in the 13 "principles of faith", which he invented; besides
the cursed 'heter iska' which is pretended to be law in the Shulchan
Aruch for example, which is another one of his cursed and law breaking
inventions.
What gives ? They don't have the courage to declare themselves for the
truth. They are apparently happy to talk about two sides of their mouth.
it may well be that this particular Rabbi in the video is different,
there was no reply yet. I am talking about the whole and the bulk of
Rabbinical Judaism. They don't care, because they earn money with their
carreers. Israel doesn't care for the truth. They don't withhold their
money. Israel themselves don't study the Torah, to notice the obvious
problems.
*
Personally about this story with the man who came to ask 'moshiach', a
story I quite often think about, I think you might interpret the story
like so ...
The man comes to ask 'moshiach': "when do you come".
'Moshiach' is overwhelmed by the sudden request for the Redemption and a
return to the truth, to peace and Justice, from Israel, and immediatley
blurts out right now !, today. Overjoyed and amazed about the sudden
Teshuvah of at least one person in Israel, they part ways, intending to
meet up soon for the Redemption. However, when the man is gone again,
'moshiach' looks at what this man is doing, and notices that it is all
about the usual: parties for themselves, greedy behavior, not caring
really about Justice, skirting around the edges, selfishness, and so on.
Typical, they do not want to Redeem themselves after all, they did not
do Teshuvah after all. Hence, there is no point in going there, meet up
and start the Redemption seriously. There is nobody there who wants to
be good. There is nobody there who can live in a Redeemed Israel. They
don't want peace, they want more parties to amuze themselves, even
though there are people hurting who need help. This people should not,
and *cannot* be Redeemed. It was merely a question out of ignorance and
misunderstanding, that the man came to ask when 'moshiach' is coming.
They did the wrong thing. Let's say they organized a party to welcome
'moshiach' and they ironed their best clothes and put them on, and
sweeped the house two times, ordered meat for the table, and so on and
so forth. Then they thought, they will greet their supposed King, have a
big meal, go to bed half drunk and the next day: conquer the world and
party forever when it's done. Live like they do now, but with even more
money and more power, at least for the rich of them, and nothing much
else changed.
Perhaps this is how they receive their ordinary 'Kings like the Nations'
(which they asked for), and this is what these people where willing to
do for them and themselves if they could, but this is not the
Redemption.
If they had wanted the Redemption, they would quit all their bad
behavior. They would stop to gossip about other people who didn't do
much wrong, but rather than talk sneakily and angrily about people
behind their backs (not talking about criminals and actual serious bad
behavior, but more of the type like "I don't like him/her because of
[something which doesn't really matter in the bigger scheme of things],
like 'he always thinks he is funny' or 'he keeps on talking'" and that
kind of poisenous speech without much or any proof, not to be confused
with reasonable concerns about serious criminal activity. They would go
out into the people to see who needs help: that is asking 'moshiach' to
come. They would be generous, and out there to help. Rather than think
of themselves, they would be thinking and worrying about their people,
and not just their own family either (although that certainly as well),
but basically anyone (except criminals I guess). Rather than sweep their
own house twice to make a good impression on their next King (for
themselves), they would be out picking garbage from the street just
because they think it is the right thing to do, also for themselves, but
also for everyone, and for nature. Then if they do all that but they
cannot succeed to build a world of peace and justice, and they sigh over
their breath "I wish someone would help me help these people, help us
all", that is asking moshiach to come.
That is the asking for the Redemption, and you may not even have to ask
at that point, because your 'moshiach' might already be standing right
next to you doing what you are doing with you, and suggesting something
strong and powerful to you, above and beyond the usual charity and good
works for individuals. Something powerful like a way toward a Sovereign
Revolution with an end goal of peace and justice on a greater level
than merely giving someone food, above and beyond helping individuals
with individual activities. You might not even know that this person
is 'moshiach' and you don't even care, and you don't even need to
care. Suddenly you might already be in the Redemption, doing it, and
only later you realize: this was where it started, this is how we asked
'moshiach' to come, and only now we realized, he was there already before
we stood there. We finally came to him, and together we Redeemed us all,
and after the necessary time and struggles, we saved the world for peace,
all that which deserved to exist.
About this difference, between charity and Redemption, it is a similar
difference as the action where Moshe Rabbeinu first saves a few people
from those vicious Egyptian guards (by killing them). That was charity,
but an individual charity, and individual and limited action, with
limited results for those people. They where saved from some kind of
ongoing abuse, but perhaps only for a moment. Israel does a lot of this
kind of charity, which is of course a good thing. Unfortunately they
threw away their 7th year debt nullification (prosbul), and are now rent
seeking against each other (heter iska), overturning the greater charity
on a Sovereign Revolutionary level, which Moshe Rabbeinu did when he
gave Israel the Torah, the laws. When Moshe Rabbeinu gave Israel the
debt nullification in the 7th year, that wasn't merely charity in an
individual case, with an often temporary effect. Those laws would do
good from generation to generation, in many houses, many cities, many
lands, and even all over the world, forever. When Israel said: "we will
do and we will hear", that was the Sovereign Revolution of charitable
and hospitable behavior and rules, which also became the Jubilee on land
(the right to free land for all, which is very important, and is still
absolutely critical to human society, even though they don't have a clue
because they don't think or want to use their heads, or both).
Since the guy in question wasn't about all that, his question about
"when will 'moshiach' come" was probably misunderstood by 'moshiach',
because 'moshiach' was so eager to get Justice and Peace established
forever, that the hope of finding someone of Israel who wanted to be
good overshadowed any caution about the reality of this possibility, but
soon after it was already discovered that this person who asked for
'moshiach' did not actually want 'moshiach' after all. It was merely
talk, perhaps curiosity, or the will to reign on top of the world with
some meaningless Empire like we have seen so many. Kind of like a
misunderstanding from both ends.
The prophet then apparently rectifies the situation, saying: if you had
understood what the 'moshiach' really wants (what we really need to do
that is, which is justice and peace), if you really had wanted to listen
or ask what you needed to do and then actually did it, then 'moshiach'
would have come that day immediately, and the Redemption would start
now.
*
Like I wrote before already, I think it is fairly clear that Israel
refuses the Redemption, rejects the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu, the Rabbis
refuse the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu (!), there will be no Teshuvah from
these hard necked 'teachers'. Although they are right that 'moshiach
should be coming now' (which is probably already true and happened /
happening), they do not want to actually do it. It is quite similar to
the above story again. They know 'moshiach' should now at long last be
coming one way or the other, but they don't want to be part of this
greater Peace and Justice. When they say they do, that is empty talk.
Hence again, no Redemption, because it's all merely talk. It's curiosity
maybe, or a will for a human King/Tyrant and another Empire of money
making at the cost of others. Their wish will probably not be honored,
but rather we will get the next round of punishment, 7 times worse than
the Nazi holocaust.
They are still right that 'the time is now', but they are not actually
making that a reality. The moment is already passing, the punishment
already started also, in a minor way for now. Rather than Redemption,
they will be destroyed. 95% of the Jewish people in the world might be
killed. This has been the choice of Israel at this point. They have the
choice between their current state of lawlessness and lying with the
Rabbis and then they will live as they do now and be destroyed because
of it somewhat later, or they can admit their lying and start doing
better and start the whole Redemption. They have chosen the former, at
least at this point. The consequences will likely be horrific for them.
It will likely become the greatest slaughtering campaign of the Jewish
people in all of history. I merely compute the Torah: 7 times worse each
round. I wasn't the one who wrote that. This is your deal with your God.
It is also hard for me to believe it can get this bad ... or is it ?
It will be people worse than Nazis, which are the organized gangsters
behind the USA Empire more or less, in line with the rest of the world
of crime and evil, but now they have 80 year more technological
developments. The tools to do the same job are much more powerful.
Easily 7 times more powerful, if you want to think of it that way.
With the Nazis, you could hide in a cellar and survive it. If you didn't
look too Jewish, you could perhaps pass yourself off as French. While
there where spies "everywhere", they where humans with all their
problems and limitations. Nowadays we have all that, but also cameras
everywhere, satalites in the sky, the money system is nearing complete
centralization, there is ground radar, there is DNA testing, but perhaps
above all: there is facebook and ticktock, there is the phone in your
pocket, who tells the powers that be more about you than you know about
yourself, including whether or not you are Jewish. Then we even have
this new algorithm pattern matching device called "artificial
intelligence", which seems to have the capability to automate the
process of dissecting its way through this incredibly large amount of
data in a meaningful way, to put the Tyrans on your trail. We also have
weapons from Nuclear Bombs to weapons so small you cannot even see them,
even if they where piled on top of each other and you where pointed out
by a needle where they are (biological weapons, nano-weapons, weird
materials, etc).
Deploying all this power, is a sick and evil ruling class, who are
masters of lying, but they also have a lot to fear from a counter
Revoultion. Sooner or later, they are going to hurt people and people
will be angry. There is always a risk of Revolution, even though they
will usually succeed at being at the head of any of those. (Incidentally,
my proposal is a Revolution of the sort they might fear; I guess they
should fear it.) The point is: for them - the ruling class gangsters -
it is also a matter of life and death to be ready to take on "the people
in general" in a Revolution against them. It is similar to an
occupation, and thus they have a lot of experience with it, but it takes
on a greater urgency when it happens in your own land. It being a matter
of life and death for them to be able to defeat a Revolution against
them, we can assume there are those among them at least, who feverishly
prepare for a war against good people, their own people, even the people
generally of the world. Others who might not be just so worried, might
still be sympathetic to those who are, broadly supporting their
preparations. They have a lot of money to do all these things, and more.
It is quite easy to use the guise of war and 'national security' to do
all sorts of things, build all sorts of things for your private selve,
and have the highest levels of secrecy around it.
Didn't the power brokers in the middle ages try to protect themselves
with their Castles and their underground passage ways, their grain
reserves and wells ? Didn't Hitler have his bunker ? With today its
technology, these things take the form which modern technology allows.
Another factor is that they control the minds of people with fabricated
and needless wars, but these wars can nevertheless hurt also them, or
these wars may spiral beyond their control (in theory at least). If the
plan is for the big powers to help reduce each others population, that
is a lot of explosions nearby one way or the other, with some
unpredictability to it, also in terms of social reactions, including
from those closest around you. The more secure you can make your clique,
the greater your control will likely be in the end. If you can no longer
organize profit and safety for your own inner clique, it will fall apart
and you could be the first to die at their own hands.
Hence: they probably dug themselves in, and are still doing it, just in
case. From what side will likely Revolutions against Tyranny come: the
Jewish, this already happened before, such as after World War 1. The
core of the Jewish people wants peace and justice. This tends to bring
them into the opposite to Tyrants and evil wars, sooner or later. They
don't submit as much to the criminals. They also carry around this
Torah, which the criminals certainly do not want as an inspiration for
their slaves, with things in it like debt nullification of free land for
all, or to fear nobody besides the Creator of the Universe and his rage
against an injustice.
You can see how the next round of punishment, can become 7 times worse
than the Nazi holocaust. The Empire is much bigger than Germany: it is
global. The whole world is more or less subjugated to America, including
Russia. It is like evil has united. The technology is much stronger.
It is conceivable that all Israel has to do, is set that first step:
repent from the prosbul. The Rabbis have a conference, and the result
is: world wide the prosbul will be declared null and void, who engages
in it breaks the law and needs to be punished if possible. In theory this
first step, might kick off the entire Redemption, when it leads to a
second step later and so on, and this whole mad episode of 7 Nazi
holocausts in one could be avoided.
I write this when this is still possible ! Right now it is still
possible !
Yet these Rabbis sit there doing nothing ! The rest of Israel ? Nothing !
It can only mean that they have zero interest or belief in the Torah,
even when everything has come true, and is coming true right now
in-their-face. No fear for heaven, everything is about fitting in, goose
stepping like the Nazi goons behind each other mindlessly without
thinking, too scared to call a liar like Hillel or Rambam what they are,
too arrogant to admit they have been wrong, two eyes on their paycheck
and how they fit in comfortably with their own deceived and confused
communities.
I understand though, that with so much goodness in the Torah, it becomes
hard to see the poison you have allowed to creep in, like a passage of
Mercury before the Sun is hard to see, as you are blinded by the light.
Then you contrast the Torah with the mess which the Nations are
following, and the contrast is so extreme that you loose your critical
abilities when reading materials from the group you think has it right:
Israel and their Rabbis. It becomes an emotional glue as it where. They
can talk about individuals doing wrong (how can you even avoid that),
certainly in a generalized sense "too much bad speech, too loose dress,
not enough care" etc, but when the bad people are their own IDOLIZED
"Sages" and long deceized Rabbis, they don't do anything. They must
follow, or so they think.
Well anyway, probably they will soon almost all be dead. I warned them
not to let things get that far out of control, but they don't listen.
With the Rabbis dead and Israel nearing the point of extinction, perhaps
the shock will be great enough to move them to give up on their bad
choices and finally come to the Redemption.
The Redemption already started. Israel just chose not to show up. That
is the situation. I fear most of Israel will realize this fact,
literally perhaps decades from the present day, when a tremendous amount
of harm has been done to them. It is literally a few coffees and some
excitement away, and the whole thing could be on the road in a day and a
half, globally. With today its communications networks: not a problem.
The criminals don't control everything, and HKB'H is the one ultimately
deciding anyway. If Israel wants to live in peace forever, it can
literally be an irreversible project in like a day and a half. Instead,
it looks like the Jewish people are asking for 7 Nazi holocausts rolled
into one horrendously bloody and terrible genocide against themselves,
because of a whole list of character failings which they allow to
persist and control them, from needing icecreams right now, to their
hard neck, on and on it goes, many bad behaviors cause this blockade
within Israel against the Peace.
You see how much time HKB'H gives you. There is a bit of a war now in
Gaza, but if you don't follow the news as one Rabbi wisely remarked,
everything seems fine (and he was also right to say that the news is
poison). You know something is wrong, but it is not so wrong that you
can't do the laundry in your very own house anymore. You still have time
to relax and change for the better. Eventually however, the time will be
completely over.
The Prophets have said, fortunately, that at the point that you don't
know where to go anymore, at the moment of your highest distress, this
is also when the Redemption will break out. If I read that correctly. I
fear though that while the Redemption might finally happen, it will
still cost an extreme amount of people their lives, including Jewish
people, many of whom might not be so bad on the whole.
It is an amazing thing though, to see all this 'moshiach now' stuff on
the Internet, and to know that this is even true and good that they do
that, but then the actual Redemption and doing Teshuvah for something as
obvious as the prosbul: nothing. It is like a party, a big celebration
for some King their birthday, or a standing festivities and happiness
campaign about the birth of a son, but the actual focus of this party is
absent. To say the *person* is absent is not right, as it is not about a
person, even though they seem to think it is usually. Better to put it
like it is a big party about let's say a supposed scientific breakthrough
which allows everyone to remain healthy, and everyone is super happy
about nobody ever being sick anymore, people are dancing and singing,
but when you ask where this medicine actually is: it isn't there. It is
like a celebration of a graduation for someone, and everyone is happy
and giving gifts, and when when you ask who is the one who graduated,
they tell you that this person failed the final exam. The party is
there, the hype is there, but what it is about is not there.
They are celibrating and dancing about 'moshiach' being there, but
'moshiach' is (proverbially I guess), still sitting at the gates of
Rome, minding his and other's bandages, crying for all the wars and the
evil in the world and how things are just going from bad to worse, and
none is seriously interested in Peace.
It is like this man who asked when 'moshiach' would come, and when he
heard 'today' he started to prepare a party. However, 'moshiach' could
not come, because it is not about a party, it is not about gorging
yourself and thinking about yourself.
It is also a lot about power, though. They are afraid to loose power and
prestige, because a lot of power will go over into the hands of
'moshiach' whether or not he likes that or not. They fear both: to loose
their own power over their own people, and to be subjected to this new power.
95% of the Jewish people may be dead in the coming years / decade (or
who knows), because of this. That's a big sacrifice to make, to protect
your own petty power positions, and for the fear of the unknown.
"But Sabbatai Zevi" ... we can't have another mistake.
Indeed, you can't have another mistake like liar Hillel the Elder and
the exile he helped cause, so stop following this liar of yours and
repent from the prosbul. Is that too much to ask ? Am I asking for
anything else ? Not really. From a pure Torah perspective, I merely ask:
stop the prosbul lies, stop the heter iska lies, stop the Lamp of Helena
lies, and institute the Jubilee on land where you can, incidentally I
also think you are lying about your SHabbos: working on that evening is
not allowed and you messing with the point the new day starts is the
most crazy calendar ever seen on Earth, and not in a good way. That is
basically it. Of course I have a lot more proposals than just this, but
that is all in the optional category: if you read and understand and
agree, *then* do it, otherwise do *not do it*. You do it because you
want to do it. The Torah however, you just need to stop lying about it,
and you are also sworn to it, hence I have the right (within the logic
of the Torah) to say that you should return to it.
If that makes you scared, sigh. What do you expect from this Redemption
? Icecream in 20 flavors, The End, everyone happy just like that ?
What do I have to do with your Shabbatai Zevi and other guys, what are
they to me ? You *are* following your faker 'messiah' called Hillel the
Elder, it is already a disaster. I just ask you to stop doing that. Stop
with your fakers, listen to Moshe Rabbeinu.
Did Moshe Rabbeinu dared to take a risk in his life, for the sake of
Justice ? You can be scared of me ranting and arguing, but I won't
likely ever do more than that. I'm an individual, remember ? The
gangsters of the world however, in control of the armies and the mass
media, that's a whole other story. If your God put that power against
you, you have something to seriously be afraid off.
"But ... but, we're stuck, we don't dare, I can't, I can't go to my wife
and tell her that we need to break with our circle, that I need to stand
up against Hillel and the Sages .... but but but ... cars, mortgages,
children ..." It has never been easier than today, to have your own
opinion, and have literally nobody care about it. You used to risk your
neck to speak out against some King. Nowadays ? If you don't dare now,
when will you dare ?! Moshe Rabbeinu risk everything, did the ultimate,
and you can't even risk a raised eyebrow from your misunderstanding
neighbor ? Are these the braves, who when told to bow for the idol are
the only ones who remain standing, willing to jump in with the lions if
they have to ? Are these the braves who face down an overwhelming army,
and triump over them for the sake of Justice ? Are these the students of
law, who outraged at the abuses go to war on the Roman Empire, and win ?
Who are you ? Who do you want to be ?
-- Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl
When will 'moshiach' come, 'today', but did not come ...