Re: What is legitimate about the ID bait and switch scam at this time?

On 6/14/2025 4:45 PM, RonO wrote:

https://evolutionnews.org/2025/06/jonathan-wells-cleared-the-ground-for- intelligent-design/
 The intelligent design creationist scam likely was never a legitimate scientific effort from it's very beginnings after the creationist loss in Edwards v. Aguillard, 1987.  At that time they knew that nothing that they had measured up as science, but they could not give up on the science denial.  The ID perp's current Top Six god-of-the-gaps best evidence for the ID scam were all used by the scientific creationists before 1987, and the Supreme court told the IDiots that just because science currently did not have all the answers was not support for their creationist beliefs.  The Top Six killed ID on TO because most of the IDiots that were left realized that they had never wanted the ID perps to accomplish any valid ID science.  The god that fills the Top Six gaps in the order in which they must have occurred in this universe is not the god described in the Bible.  ID perp's like Nelson that were YEC knew that the ID science never existed or they would not have signed up to support the Wedge goals.  Any legitimate ID science would have just been more science to deny for IDiots like Nelson, and it turned out that most of the IDiots on TO were in the same boat and could not continue to support the ID scam once they had their faces rubbed in that sad fact.
 Denial seems to be all that the ID perps ever had, and the only thing that creationists like Tour and MarkE can continue with, but the denial is senseless, as MarkE had to accept, because the origin of life gap (#3 of the Top Six) is not Biblical.  Any god that fills that gap would not be the Biblcial god.  Creationists have to be like Denton and Behe and accept that the Bible pretty much tells you nothing about nature in terms of god-did-it Biblical claims.  Denton just claims that his god got the ball rolling with the Big Bang and the rest unfolded into what we have today.  Most (all?) of the other ID perps have never accepted Denton's deistic views.  Creationists have to start denying what is written in the Bible in order to keep using the stupid and senseless gap denial stupidity.  The AIG still uses the Big Bang (#1 of the Top Six) in their creation museum even though YEC Biblical literalists (like the AIG "scientists") know enough to try to remove the Big Bang from public school science standards along with biological evolution.  Several states have tried to do that, and Kansas succeeded back in 1999 until enough creationists were voted out and the standards could be restored to what they had been before.  The ID perps and scientific creationists before them can only use the Top Six as fire and forget denial arguments that the rubes need to forget about in order to be fed the next denial argument.
 The Reason to Believe old earth creationists used to claim that they were IDiots and supported the ID science until the ID perps were stupid enough to put out the Top Six as a related whole.  Now you would be hard pressed to find any evidence that the Reason to Believe creationists ever supported the ID scam.  They still supported the ID scam after Dover, and they just claimed that they had never wanted to teach the junk in the public schools.  They just wanted to use it to support their Biblical creation model, but it turned out that they could not do that.
 The ID perp article in the link above is admitting that the ID perps never had the ID science.  As stupid as it may seem they are claiming that all they basically have is science denial.
 QUOTE:
Before the positive case for intelligent design can be received effectively, the case against the Darwinian evolutionary mechanism must be clearly laid out. One man who was instrumental in this initial “ground clearing operation” was biologist Dr. Jonathan Wells, our friend and colleague who passed away in 2024 at the age of 82.
END QUOTE:
 Currently all that the creationist rubes get from the ID perps is the science denial.  Wells' creationist denial book, Icons of Evolution, is the only junk that has been used for the obfuscation and denial switch scam lesson plan that the creationist rubes get instead of any ID science.
 The positive case for intelligent design has never been made.  Top Six gap denial isn't a positive case for anything, and no attempt was made to test Behe's and Dembski's IDiotic junk.  Dembski claimed that he was going to publish a scientific test for ID decades ago, and when he published it, it was just the tornado through a junk yard probability stupidity, and he had to admit that it wasn't a valid test.  Behe and Minnich claimed that IC could be tested, but both admitted that they had not done any such testing, nor have they ever attempted any such testing since making the claim during the Dover fiasco.  It turns out that pretty much none of the IDiots ever wanted to validate any ID science because it would destroy the Big Tent Wedge religious movement.  Even Old earth creationists like Reason to Believe do not want any ID science validated with respect to the Top Six best evidences for the ID scam. Nelson would have never joined up to support the Wedge movement if Meyer had ever had any valid scientific evidence that some god had diddle farted with life forms within a 25 million year period over half a billion years ago during the Cambrian explosion.
 The ID scam has never been a legitimate effort for ID perps like Nelson.   Science is just the study of nature, and there is only one nature that we have to study, and nature is not Biblical.  Really, most of the ID perps likely would not support the ID creationist scam if they had any valid ID science.  It would just be more science to deny for the type of Biblical creationists that they are.  Most of the IDiots left posting on TO in 2017 found that they could not support the best evidence for the ID scam because they tell any competent person that the ID "science" will never support their Biblical beliefs.
 Ron Okimoto
 

I should note that Jay Richards (the ID perp that made the stupid claims about Wells in the linked to article above was program director for the ID scam when the Wedge document got leaked.  This was around the time that Wells was finishing up Icons of Evolution, just before it was published.  Most of the ID perps went into denial about the Wedge document, but Jay Richards fessed up and claimed that the Wedge was the program that he was directing, and that you just had to look at the mission statement of the ID scam unit in order to determine that, that was true.  The mission statement was essentially repeated in the Wedge document, and also claimed that they were trying to recreate a theocracy that they believed had once existed in the US.  So the Wedge was the mission that the ID perps had all signed up for, and was the program that Richards was directing.
When Ohio claimed that they wanted to teach ID in their public schools in 2001 there was a Colloquy discussion on ID and public education. Several TO regulars participated.  DeWolf (head of legal for the ID scam unit and coauthor of both the teach ID scam booklet and the Utah law review article claiming that it was legal to teach ID in the public schools) and Jay Richards (I don't know if Richards was still program director at that time) participated, but neither one claimed that the bait and switch was going to go down, just that ID was a legitimate science topic to discuss in the public schools.  I don't think that they responded to any feed back for their posts.  One thing that became apparent during that Colloquy discussion was the fact that none of the creationists IDiots knew what was going to be taught in the public schools.  The best that some of them could come up with was the same old creationist denial stupidity that had failed the scientific creationists.  None of them seemed to understand irreducible complexity nor specified complexity.  There seemed to be no ID science that they expected to be taught.  This same misunderstanding of the ID scam was apparent on TO at the time, so I started posting on the ARN board to see what ID was supposed to be, and found out that it was just a bogus scam.   It turned out that there wasn't any ID science worth teaching, and a lot of the creationists understood this, but they still supported the idea of the possibility of some type of ID creation science existing. It turned out that the only creationists left supporting the ID scam after the bait and switch started to go down were ignorant, incompetent, and or dishonest.  Informed, competent and honest creationist IDiots did not exist.
Ron Okimoto