Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello

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Sujet : Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello
De : dnomhcir (at) *nospam* gmx.com (Richmond)
Groupes : talk.origins
Date : 06. Apr 2024, 15:51:50
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Frantic
Message-ID : <86jzlao86x.fsf@example.com>
References : 1 2 3
User-Agent : Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux)
Arkalen <arkalen@proton.me> writes:

Maybe really short to start with:
>
Tomasello defines "agency" as a kind of goal-seeking system: a system
that has a goal, is capable of perceiving the environment, verifying
whether the goal is met, if not deploying a behavior that would move
the goal forward, and looping between verification/behavior until the
goal is met. Analogy is a robot lawnmower.

If we substitute the ultimate goal, which is to survive, instead of
various means to an end type goals, then agency becomes life. But...

>
>
He argues that animal evolution has seen progressive complexification
of agency that basically involves adding layers, with higher ones
monitoring/controlling the lower ones. He focuses on the history of
human evolution specifically and takes some example organisms from
lineages that presumably match the level of agency a human ancestor
would have had (he acknowledges convergent evolution of various levels
of agency in other lineages but leaves it at that).
>
The levels he describes are:
>
* no agency - nematodes. There isn't goal-seeking, just
  stimulus-response. The animal eats food if it runs into it, escapes
  danger if it's present etc but doesn't really *plan* or anticipate
  beyond its immediate environment

The robot lawnmower doesn't plan either. Although some planning went
into making it no doubt. I think the animal does have a goal here, which
is to survive, and behaviours like eating and avoiding are a means to
that goal.

Some animals have not progressed to more complexity. In fact I don't
think it is necessarily progress, it depends on whether it achieves the
goal. There are still bacteria for example, doing quite well without the
complexity of the human brain.


Date Sujet#  Auteur
5 Apr 24 * "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello28Arkalen
5 Apr 24 +- Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello1Athel Cornish-Bowden
5 Apr 24 +- Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello1Athel Cornish-Bowden
5 Apr 24 +* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello20John Harshman
5 Apr 24 i`* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello19Arkalen
6 Apr 24 i +* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello11John Harshman
6 Apr 24 i i+* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello2Arkalen
14 Apr 24 i ii`- Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello1*Hemidactylus*
6 Apr 24 i i`* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello8LDagget
6 Apr 24 i i `* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello7Arkalen
6 Apr 24 i i  +* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello2LDagget
7 Apr 24 i i  i`- Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello1Arkalen
6 Apr 24 i i  +* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello2Bob Casanova
7 Apr 24 i i  i`- Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello1JTEM
7 Apr 24 i i  `* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello2*Hemidactylus*
8 Apr 24 i i   `- Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello1Arkalen
6 Apr 24 i +* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello3RonO
6 Apr 24 i i`* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello2Arkalen
7 Apr 24 i i `- Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello1RonO
6 Apr 24 i `* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello4Richmond
6 Apr 24 i  +- Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello1Arkalen
7 Apr 24 i  `* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello2Chris Thompson
7 Apr 24 i   `- Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello1Richmond
6 Apr 24 +* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello4Burkhard
8 Apr 24 i`* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello3Arkalen
14 Apr 24 i `* Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello2*Hemidactylus*
15 Apr 24 i  `- Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello1*Hemidactylus*
6 Apr 24 `- Re: "The Evolution of Agency" by Michael Tomasello1jillery

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