Re: West Virginia creationism

Vincent Maycock wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 17:48:46 -0400, Ron Dean
<rondean-noreply@gmail.com> wrote:
 

Vincent Maycock wrote:

On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 23:15:45 -0400, Ron Dean
<rondean-noreply@gmail.com> wrote:
>

jillery wrote:

<snip>

DNA information comes from none of the sources you identified above,
therefore it doesn't exist.  QED.
>

Each and every source of the information I mentioned, this information
involves the mind.
Information exist, and since it does, since there's no exception, then
it follows that information contained in DNA must also come from a mind.
Accidental, mindless, random processes give nothing, but gibberish.
Where there's nothing, but gibberish there is nothing for which natural
selection can select.

>
Without natural selection, information in the genome indeed becomes
gibberish.
>

I said nothing about natural selection not existing - it does.

 But you weren't able to identify when natural selection removes
gibberish.
 

But it conserves.

 And it creates, as well, by removing less fit structures and
behaviors, just like a sculptor creates by removing marble.
 

  But with natural selection, something that's by chance  a

little bit less gibberish is preserved, so that over time there is
much, much more coherent information in the genome than before.
>

Why is any part of gibberish preserved?

 It will be if, per chance, it happens to leave more offspring.
 

What "tells" NS that this bit of
gibberish will be needed later?

 It doesn't need to know that.  In fact, natural selection is
restricted to operating on the fitness landscape that's locally
available to it.  It can't make leaps from one landscape peak to
another.
 

If gibberish is not needed why doesn't
the DNA's edit and repair systems not cut out this bit of gibberish?

 Because DNA proofreading isn't perfect.  Many mutations make it past
edit and repair, where they can be expressed in the phenotype.
 

True, too many end up with cancer also there are thousands that are born with physical and mental defects due to genetic disorders. But perhaps many individuals that become stricken with cancer is due to environmental circumstances such as, pollution, solar radiation, nuclear fall out, certain preservatives and chemicals in our food along with poor food choices, obesity, life styles etc. rather than from to their inherited genetics. There is increases in physical and mental diseases. It seems that bad mutations is the most obvious, with neutral the most common and beneficial mutations extremely rare. We can see the consequences genetic mutations. Bad mutation are observed all too often. Wikipedia list hundreds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetic_disorders
But beneficial mutations are hardly observable - very hard to spot.
A few are listed:
https://biologywise.com/beneficial-mutation#google_vignette
In the most cases where adaptations and minor evolutionary changes are observed it's not because new information is added to DNA, but rather there is a loss of information.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-57694-8
Bad mutations seems to be the rule. The male sperm count is decreasing with each generation. Each year new and previously unknown genetic diseases are occurring just in humans. With the passing of time, there is little doubt that our DNA, our genetics is become increasingly _less_ perfect. The Homo-sapiens species is believed to have arrived on the scene 200,000 years ago, given the increases in genetic disorders we observe today, it's highly _likely_ that the DNA of our early ancestors were far closer to perfect that any of their decedents. Therefore, from this evidence one can deduce that the proofreading and repair mechanisms themselves are in a declining state with each generation becoming a bit less perfect than the preceding generation. It's possible we saw this in the extinction of Neanderthal species.
Beneficial mutations are rarely observed. The defective mutations are overwhelming the beneficial mutations, as evidenced by the increasing list of genetic disorders. Perhaps, this explains the 99% extinction rate of all life forms that ever lived as observed or recorded in the fossil record, as well as the numbers of the species become extinct today. of course, human involvement accounts for some of this extinction such as passenger pigeons, the dodo bird and the Tasmanian tiger. But to your point the proofreading and repair systems are not perfect. But without deliberate design how did the proofreading and repair systems come about in the first place? Of course there is educated, guesses, suppositions, hypothesis and theories, but no one _knows_. Another question is where is the man holding hold Occam sword? Has he been barred from entering this room of science?