Re: To sum up

On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 15:59:53 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:

On 15/02/2025 1:53 pm, Mark Isaak wrote:

On 2/8/25 5:06 AM, MarkE wrote:

>
My argument is therefore, as complexity goes up, the challenges to
naturalistic OOL and evolution also increase.

 
Evolution produces complexity without the least concern. Design tries to
minimize it and create simplicity. As complexity goes up, the challenge
to designed OOL also increases.
 

>
My assertion is self-evident, is it not? I.e.:
>
OOL: the more complex the first self-replicating entity needs to be, the
greater the challenge to its prebiotic (i.e. pre-Darwinian evolution)
formation.
>
Evolution: the more complex a "higher" organism, given a maximum
plausible rate of mutation, fixation and time, the greater the challenge
to its evolution.
>
On the other hand, your assertion that "evolution produces complexity
without the least concern" is not self-evident, and is neither an
argument nor a rebuttal. The capability of evolution to produce
complexity is, rather, a fundamental contention.

Here's an opportunity for you to actually speak to me, instead of your
usual petty sniping.  I understand your arguments stated above. 

WRT OOL: It's unknown what the complexity of a self-replicating entity
"needs to be". Any estimates about this are based on *assumptions*
about the mechanism(s) which could create the first self-replicating
entity, and the environment(s) which could support those mechanism(s).
This makes your claim a GotG argument.

WRT OOL and Evolution: The fatal flaw with both of your arguments is
they conflate complexity with functionality.  The one does not inform
the other.  The actual challenge to evolution is to create better
functionality for a given environment. 

Pro Ployd's concurrent post WRT altitude hypoxia illustrates the
difference.  Most humans respond to extreme altitude by increasing
their hematocrit.  This is a simple but at best temporary solution,
with long-term and fatal complications. A simpler and better solution
most mountain human populations did is to change their hemoglobin to
increase its oxygen saturation.  Of course, this requires time for
natural selection to select for this trait, and some individuals will
likely die without it.

Once again, your obsession with complexity serves you poorly.

--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge