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On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 22:30:41 -0500, DB Cates <cates_db@hotmail.com>Could you expand on how these hypotheticals analogize to an omniscient being as the 'father figure'. I don't see it.
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On 2025-03-18 12:16 p.m., Martin Harran wrote:Maybe it's a language thing but I can't understand how you see givingOn Tue, 18 Mar 2025 09:26:24 -0500, DB Cates <cates_db@hotmail.com>IMHO, asked for tweaking is still tweaking and an omniscient tweaker is
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>On 2025-03-18 3:13 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:>On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 16:31:30 -0500, DB Cates <cates_db@hotmail.com>I'm having difficulty reconciling that view with a purported omniscient
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>On 2025-03-17 8:31 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:>On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 08:42:49 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>[giant snip]
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>
Thank you for that. I had to stop snipping replies to Ron because if
you snip anything at all, he claims you were running from his
arguments and reposts the same stuff so you end up with a post 2 or 3
times longer than it needs to be :(
>>>>>
QUOTE:
We believe that God acts purposefully in creation, just as he does in
our lives, and that he continues to actively uphold and sustain creation.
END QUOTE:
And again, nothing there about God tweaking life the way Behe claims.
[another giant snip]
Out of curiosity, what do you think the phrase "he continues to actively
uphold and sustain creation." mean? I mean, in particular "continues"
and "actively".
I see this as a background thing, not a direct process. I have 5
grown-up children, all with children of their own. I continue to
actively uphold and sustain them in whatever way they need but I do
not *interfere* in their lives. If, for example, they make decisions
that I don't agree with, I *might* offer an opinion if I think it will
be welcome but the decision is entirely theirs and I fully accept and
support whatever they do decide. The help and support I (and my wife)
give them is on request, not pushed on them, though they know it is
available when needed, and is given unconditionally.
>
That's why I think the analogy of God as father is a particularly apt
one.
>
entity.
>
I'm struggling to grasp what difficulty you have, can you elaborate?
>
likely doing miracles.
help on request as tweaking.
My daughter messages me and says one of their kids has a dental
appointment and it's awkward for she or her husband to get off work
that day, can I take their kid to the appointment; is that tweaking or
interfering?
My son comes to me because he has some work to do on his house; he can
get a grant for it but he has to complete the work first, can I help
him out with a temporary loan, I do that, he gets the grant and repays
me; have I interfered in or tweaked his life?
My daughter comes to me and says she has been offered a new job but is
not sure whether or not to take it and would like my advice, which I
give, making clear that it has to be her decision; is that is that
tweaking or interfering?
An important point relating to this is that all miracles or examples
of divine interference that I know of are related to *individuals* not
an entire species. I've asked Ron to give a specific example of a
miracle that he regards as tweaking but I won't hold my breath waiting
for it.
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