Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'

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Sujet : Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'
De : {$to$} (at) *nospam* meden.demon.co.uk (Ernest Major)
Groupes : talk.origins
Date : 16. Mar 2024, 14:25:01
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Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <ut46je$2tl5p$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
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On 16/03/2024 11:17, Richmond wrote:
j.nobel.daggett@gmail.com (LDagget) writes:
 
Richmond wrote:
>
John Harshman <john.harshman@gmail.com> writes:
>
JTEM has his own vocabulary. By "evolution" he means the modern
synthesis, also called (which JTEM would detest) neoDarwinism. What he
seeks to attach Darwin's name to is Lysenkoism or neoLamarckism. If
you make all those switches what he says is more or less correct.
>
Not sure whether Mao or the CCP adopted Lysenkoism, but it doesn't
seem out of the question.
>
>
The phrase "survival of the fittest" has always seemed suspect to me. We
hear it repeated to justify capitalism. But there isn't any requirement
to be 'fit' as far as I can see. There is only a requirement (for genes)
to survive. For example the camel which sits on the calf of its rival
and crushes it to death, or the chimpanzee which kills and eats the
infant offspring of its rivals. In what way is it 'fit'? A biologist
would define it as merely fit to survive, but then the phrase becomes
redundant as survival of the survivor. And we see the same results in
captialism with corporations swallowing up rivals rather than competing
with them.
>
You want to argue against a metaphor by considering it literally.
 It's not a metaphor.
Darwin's original phrase was Natural Selection - an analogy with Artificial Selection. The phenomenon is differential reproductive success causally correlated with hereditary traits. (As opposite to differential reproductive success not correlated with hereditary traits, which is genetic drift.)
As I understand, Darwin was frustrated that people failed to understand the concept of Natural Selection, and hoped that perhaps people would find Spencer's Survival of the Fittest more comprehensible. The issue perhaps is that fittest has shades of meaning - Survival of the Best Adapted would seem to closer to how Darwin understood it. See Selection in Relation to Sex.
I'm not sure what literary classification to place Survival of the Fittest in. It's not obviously an analogy like Natural Selection. It's not a definition. (Lawyer Daggett's complaint may be that you were treating it as a definition.) Perhaps it's a catchphrase or a sound bite. One could certainly make a case for it being a metaphor - survival of the fittest for persistence of adaptive traits. (Now I wonder how contemporaries interpreted the trait - modern understanding has been modified by the rhetoric of Creationists and Social Tennysonists (often the same people).
 
That
is some mix of dishonest, foolish, and stupid.
 Oh please fuck off.
 
--
alias Ernest Major

Date Sujet#  Auteur
11 Mar 24 * Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'40JTEM
11 Mar 24 +* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'3Athel Cornish-Bowden
11 Mar 24 i+- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1John Harshman
11 Mar 24 i`- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1JTEM
11 Mar 24 `* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'36Richmond
11 Mar 24  +* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'16JTEM
12 Mar 24  i`* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'15Athel Cornish-Bowden
13 Mar 24  i +- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1JTEM
13 Mar 24  i +* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'12John Harshman
14 Mar 24  i i+- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1Robert Carnegie
16 Mar 24  i i`* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'10Richmond
16 Mar 24  i i `* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'9LDagget
16 Mar 24  i i  `* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'8Richmond
16 Mar 24  i i   +* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'2FromTheRafters
16 Mar 24  i i   i`- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1Richmond
16 Mar 24  i i   +* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'4Ernest Major
16 Mar 24  i i   i`* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'3Richmond
16 Mar 24  i i   i `* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'2erik simpson
16 Mar 24  i i   i  `- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1Ernest Major
16 Mar 24  i i   `- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1LDagget
13 Mar 24  i `- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1John Harshman
11 Mar 24  +* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'17erik simpson
11 Mar 24  i+* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'15Richmond
12 Mar 24  ii+* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'10erik simpson
12 Mar 24  iii`* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'9Bob Casanova
12 Mar 24  iii +* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'7erik simpson
12 Mar 24  iii i+- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1JTEM
12 Mar 24  iii i+* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'2Bob Casanova
12 Mar 24  iii ii`- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1JTEM
12 Mar 24  iii i+- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1Mark Isaak
12 Mar 24  iii i`* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'2DB Cates
12 Mar 24  iii i `- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1erik simpson
12 Mar 24  iii `- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1JTEM
12 Mar 24  ii+- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1JTEM
12 Mar 24  ii`* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'3jillery
12 Mar 24  ii `* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'2Richmond
13 Mar 24  ii  `- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1jillery
12 Mar 24  i`- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1Athel Cornish-Bowden
12 Mar 24  `* Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'2Mark Isaak
12 Mar 24   `- Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'1Richmond

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