Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?

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Sujet : Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?
De : {$to$} (at) *nospam* meden.demon.co.uk (Ernest Major)
Groupes : talk.origins
Date : 28. Mar 2024, 18:55:45
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <uu4av2$3nmc4$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
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On 28/03/2024 03:28, John Harshman wrote:
Going back to the real issue though, I'm not sure it's quite what they mean
with niche construction - at least the way I understand them - because there is no feedback loop from the effect that the bear has on its environment and subsequent selection pressures. IIRC the example we got in school were beavers: they are adapted for semi-aquatic life, AND create more
semi-aquatic environments through their building activity which then again acts
on the beaver and increases the pressure on those less well adapted etc. Or humans. -NS is different in an environment with hospitals than one without
>
I had viewed the term as less restrictive, such that any alteration of behavior in turn altering the selective environment experienced by the organism would count. Darwin leaves open the question of whether change in phenotype or of behavior comes first, but he also suggests mutual feedback between the two. My notion was that it's not the physical environment that counts but the environment as experienced by the organism. Thus a change of food source could count. That would certainly increase the impact of niche construction on evolution and greatly increase the number of examples, which would otherwise be fairly few.
Evolution has a number of feedback loops - between species (arms races), between the two sexes of a species (sexual selection), between organisms and the environment (niche construction), ... It'd be nice to operationalise our understanding of these processes, but I doubt that rises to a new theory of evolution.
25 years ago chaos was a hot topic, and Kauffman's research program had hopes of bringing self-organisation into the centre of evolutionary theory. That, if successful, would have, I think, been a bigger change.
--
alias Ernest Major

Date Sujet#  Auteur
26 Mar 24 * IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?27Ron Dean
26 Mar 24 +* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?7John Harshman
26 Mar 24 i`* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?6Ron Dean
26 Mar 24 i `* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?5John Harshman
26 Mar 24 i  +* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?3Pro Plyd
26 Mar 24 i  i+- Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?1Ron Dean
27 Mar 24 i  i`- Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?1RonO
27 Mar 24 i  `- Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?1Ron Dean
27 Mar 24 +* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?2*Hemidactylus*
27 Mar 24 i`- Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?1Ron Dean
27 Mar 24 +* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?6jillery
27 Mar 24 i`* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?5FromTheRafters
27 Mar 24 i `* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?4John Harshman
29 Mar 24 i  `* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?3jillery
29 Mar 24 i   `* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?2John Harshman
30 Mar 24 i    `- Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?1jillery
27 Mar 24 +- Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?1RonO
27 Mar 24 `* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?10Burkhard
27 Mar 24  `* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?9John Harshman
27 Mar 24   `* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?8Burkhard
28 Mar 24    `* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?7John Harshman
28 Mar 24     `* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?6Burkhard
28 Mar 24      +* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?2John Harshman
28 Mar 24      i`- Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?1Ernest Major
28 Mar 24      `* Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?3J. J. Lodder
28 Mar 24       +- Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?1Athel Cornish-Bowden
28 Mar 24       `- Re: IS A NEW THEORY OF EVOLUTION NEEDED?1Martin Harran

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