Re: Life: Turn it upside down!

On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 13:03:18 -0400, JTEM <jtem01@gmail.com> wrote:

 Arkalen wrote:
>

It's been done

>
Not by everyone, not here.
>

the gap was identified, and it's an unbelievably huge
gulf

>
Not really. Pretty small, actually. Especially when you're
looking at the dividing line there. There's a genuine
argument over viruses, for example.
>

I think the alkaline hydrothermal vent theory is making good headway now

>
You're doing it again. Looking at life instead of non
life, even as you argue that you're not or at least
not so much (maybe just a little?).

Alkaline hydrothermal vents are far removed from living systems.

I talked about the study of non life.
>

but "what's the most complex non-living system" wasn't really the
foundational insight there. More like "is there a non-living system that
could generate energy like modern cells do".

>
As you recall, part of the dogma is that the conditions no
longer exist. That, the conditions were perfect for spawning
life, abiogenesis occurred then immediately got up and left,
presumably searching for tea...
>
If conditions persisted, abiogenesis should be observed!
>
So take the emphasis off of life.

If the conditions of abiogenesis persisted, what do you suppose you
would observe?  Do you imagine something resembling complex life would
crawl out fully formed?  If so, your imagination is analogous to those
who assumed spontaneous generation of mice from bundles of rags.

Instead, consider the greater likelihood of an environment which
created an acidic gradient between layers of porous rocks.  There
would be, could be, nothing remotely resembling modern life, yet the
system as a whole would metabolize chemicals seeping from the ground
to build abiotic molecules enclosed within sheets of bilayer
phospholipids.  If you were to analyze these molecules, you would
notice nothing distinguishable from the products of extant life.  So
how could you prove these molecules were in fact created abiotically?

--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge