Re: West Virginia creationism

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Sujet : Re: West Virginia creationism
De : arkalen (at) *nospam* proton.me (Arkalen)
Groupes : talk.origins
Date : 14. Apr 2024, 06:31:35
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <uvfpnp$3fvqm$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
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On 14/04/2024 01:24, Ron Dean wrote:
Bob Casanova wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 11:04:15 -0700, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by Vincent Maycock
<maycock@gmail.com>:
>
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 12:41:29 -0400, Ron Dean
<rondean-noreply@gmail.com> wrote:
>
<snip>
In the most cases where adaptations and minor evolutionary changes are
observed it's not because new information is added to DNA, but rather
there is a loss of information.
>
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-57694-8
>
Bad mutations seems to be the rule.
>
*Most* mutations are harmful, but to disprove evolution you need to
show that *all*  mutations are harmful -- those rare beneficial
mutations can be selected by and amplified through natural selection,
resulting in better-functioning organisms.
>
As I understand it, most mutations are neutral; the
beneficial and harmful ones are (approximately) equal in
number, and are far outnumbered by the neutral ones. But
don't expect your correspondent to accept any of that.
 >
I disagree. Beneficial mutations are rare, far more so than harmful ones. The evidence is that mental and physical diseases and defects resulting from defective genetics are far more often _observed_ than mental or physical betterment, enrichment or improvement we see resulting from beneficial mutations. You almost never observe any that can be attributed to beneficial mutations.
 I would not be surprised if neutral mutations outstripped both the beneficial or the harmful ones. I would think though that any change in the coded information no matter how small would be a informational change that could over time gradually_add_up_ one way or the other, more likely than not, towards the degeneration.
OK. Now imagine we add a process - one that get rids of harmful mutations every generation, preventing them from adding up, and amplifies the beneficial mutations, increasing their odds of reaching fixation far beyond their base frequency and therefore allowing them to add up (because once a mutation has reached fixation every subsequent mutation gets added to it regardless, there is no "what are the odds of these two mutations occurring together" issue)
Two separate questions: 1) what would the resulting informational change be? and 2) is such a process possible, and if not why not?
snip

Date Sujet#  Auteur
22 Mar 24 * West Virginia creationism386RonO
22 Mar 24 `* Re: West Virginia creationism385Bob Casanova
22 Mar 24  +* Re: West Virginia creationism4Athel Cornish-Bowden
22 Mar 24  i+- Re: West Virginia creationism1Bob Casanova
23 Mar 24  i`* Re: West Virginia creationism2jillery
23 Mar 24  i `- Re: West Virginia creationism1RonO
30 Mar 24  `* Re: West Virginia creationism380Ron Dean
30 Mar 24   +* Re: West Virginia creationism370erik simpson
30 Mar 24   i`* Re: West Virginia creationism369Ron Dean
30 Mar 24   i +* Re: West Virginia creationism2Ron Dean
31 Mar 24   i i`- Re: West Virginia creationism1Ernest Major
30 Mar 24   i +- Re: West Virginia creationism1erik simpson
31 Mar 24   i +* Re: West Virginia creationism355jillery
2 Apr 24   i i`* Re: West Virginia creationism354Ron Dean
3 Apr 24   i i +* Re: West Virginia creationism252jillery
5 Apr 24   i i i+* Re: West Virginia creationism2JTEM
6 Apr 24   i i ii`- Re: West Virginia creationism1jillery
10 Apr 24   i i i`* Re: West Virginia creationism249Ron Dean
10 Apr 24   i i i `* Re: West Virginia creationism248Vincent Maycock
11 Apr 24   i i i  `* Re: West Virginia creationism247Ron Dean
12 Apr 24   i i i   `* Re: West Virginia creationism246Vincent Maycock
12 Apr 24   i i i    `* Re: West Virginia creationism245Ron Dean
12 Apr 24   i i i     +* Re: West Virginia creationism15Vincent Maycock
12 Apr 24   i i i     i+* Re: West Virginia creationism5Ron Dean
13 Apr 24   i i i     ii+* Re: West Virginia creationism3Vincent Maycock
14 Apr 24   i i i     iii`* Re: West Virginia creationism2Ron Dean
14 Apr 24   i i i     iii `- Re: West Virginia creationism1Vincent Maycock
20 Apr 24   i i i     ii`- Re: West Virginia creationism1Mark Isaak
13 Apr 24   i i i     i`* Re: West Virginia creationism9Bob Casanova
13 Apr 24   i i i     i +* Re: West Virginia creationism5Arkalen
13 Apr 24   i i i     i i`* Re: West Virginia creationism4Bob Casanova
10 May 24   i i i     i i `* Re: West Virginia creationism3Arkalen
11 May 24   i i i     i i  +- Re: West Virginia creationism1Bob Casanova
11 May 24   i i i     i i  `- Re: West Virginia creationism1jillery
14 Apr 24   i i i     i `* Re: West Virginia creationism3Ron Dean
14 Apr 24   i i i     i  `* Re: West Virginia creationism2Arkalen
15 Apr 24   i i i     i   `- Re: West Virginia creationism1Bob Casanova
13 Apr 24   i i i     `* Re: West Virginia creationism229Martin Harran
14 Apr 24   i i i      `* Re: West Virginia creationism228Ron Dean
14 Apr 24   i i i       +- Re: West Virginia creationism1Jim Jackson
17 Apr 24   i i i       +* Re: West Virginia creationism225Martin Harran
18 Apr 24   i i i       i`* Re: West Virginia creationism224Ron Dean
18 Apr 24   i i i       i +* Re: West Virginia creationism2Vincent Maycock
19 Apr 24   i i i       i i`- Re: West Virginia creationism1Athel Cornish-Bowden
22 Apr 24   i i i       i `* Re: West Virginia creationism221Martin Harran
22 Apr 24   i i i       i  `* Re: West Virginia creationism220Ron Dean
22 Apr 24   i i i       i   +* Re: West Virginia creationism199Vincent Maycock
26 Apr 24   i i i       i   i`* Re: West Virginia creationism198Ron Dean
26 Apr 24   i i i       i   i +- Re: West Virginia creationism1John Harshman
26 Apr 24   i i i       i   i +* Re: West Virginia creationism142Vincent Maycock
6 May 24   i i i       i   i i`* Re: West Virginia creationism141Ron Dean
7 May 24   i i i       i   i i `* Re: West Virginia creationism140Vincent Maycock
7 May 24   i i i       i   i i  +* Re: West Virginia creationism138Ron Dean
7 May 24   i i i       i   i i  i+* Re: West Virginia creationism136Vincent Maycock
8 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii`* Re: West Virginia creationism135Ron Dean
8 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii +* Re: West Virginia creationism5jillery
9 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii i`* Re: West Virginia creationism4Ron Dean
11 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii i `* Re: West Virginia creationism3jillery
13 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii i  `* Re: West Virginia creationism2Ron Dean
13 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii i   `- Re: West Virginia creationism1jillery
8 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii `* Re: West Virginia creationism129Vincent Maycock
8 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii  `* Re: West Virginia creationism128Ron Dean
8 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   +* Re: West Virginia creationism100Vincent Maycock
10 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i`* Re: West Virginia creationism99Ron Dean
10 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i +- Re: West Virginia creationism1John Harshman
10 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i +* Re: West Virginia creationism15Vincent Maycock
10 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i`* Re: West Virginia creationism14Ron Dean
11 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i +* Re: West Virginia creationism11Vincent Maycock
12 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i`* Re: West Virginia creationism10Ron Dean
12 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i +* Re: West Virginia creationism3Vincent Maycock
13 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i i`* Re: West Virginia creationism2Ron Dean
13 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i i `- Re: West Virginia creationism1Vincent Maycock
13 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i `* Re: West Virginia creationism6Burkhard
14 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  +- Re: West Virginia creationism1John Harshman
14 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  +- Re: West Virginia creationism1Athel Cornish-Bowden
14 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  +* Re: West Virginia creationism2William Hyde
15 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  i`- Re: West Virginia creationism1Athel Cornish-Bowden
14 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  `- Re: West Virginia creationism1Martin Harran
11 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i `* Re: West Virginia creationism2jillery
13 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i  `- Re: West Virginia creationism1Ron Dean
10 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i +* Re: West Virginia creationism79Burkhard
10 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i+- Re: West Virginia creationism1Athel Cornish-Bowden
10 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i`* Re: West Virginia creationism77Ron Dean
11 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i +* Re: West Virginia creationism65Chris Thompson
11 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i+* Re: West Virginia creationism2John Harshman
12 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i ii`- Re: West Virginia creationism1Chris Thompson
11 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i+* Re: West Virginia creationism6William Hyde
12 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i ii+* Re: West Virginia creationism2Chris Thompson
12 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i iii`- Re: West Virginia creationism1FromTheRafters
12 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i ii`* Re: West Virginia creationism3Ernest Major
12 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i ii `* Re: West Virginia creationism2erik simpson
12 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i ii  `- Re: West Virginia creationism1Bob Casanova
12 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i`* Re: West Virginia creationism56Ron Dean
13 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i `* Re: West Virginia creationism55Chris Thompson
13 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  +* Re: West Virginia creationism51Ron Dean
13 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  i`* Re: West Virginia creationism50Chris Thompson
13 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  i `* Re: West Virginia creationism49Ernest Major
14 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  i  `* Re: West Virginia creationism48Chris Thompson
14 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  i   `* Re: West Virginia creationism47Ernest Major
15 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  i    `* Re: West Virginia creationism46Ron Dean
16 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  i     `* Re: West Virginia creationism45Chris Thompson
14 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i i  `* Re: West Virginia creationism3Burkhard
12 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i +- Re: West Virginia creationism1Burkhard
14 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i i `* Re: West Virginia creationism10Martin Harran
10 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   i `* Re: West Virginia creationism3Burkhard
8 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   +* Re: West Virginia creationism14John Harshman
9 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   +- Re: West Virginia creationism1Ernest Major
13 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   +- Re: West Virginia creationism1Burkhard
14 May 24   i i i       i   i i  ii   `* Re: West Virginia creationism11Martin Harran
8 May 24   i i i       i   i i  i`- Re: West Virginia creationism1Ernest Major
8 May 24   i i i       i   i i  `- Re: West Virginia creationism1Ernest Major
26 Apr 24   i i i       i   i `* Re: West Virginia creationism54Ernest Major
23 Apr 24   i i i       i   +* Re: West Virginia creationism17jillery
25 Apr 24   i i i       i   `* Re: West Virginia creationism3Martin Harran
20 Apr 24   i i i       `- Re: West Virginia creationism1Mark Isaak
3 Apr 24   i i +- Re: West Virginia creationism1Burkhard
3 Apr 24   i i `* Re: West Virginia creationism100Ernest Major
31 Mar 24   i +* Re: West Virginia creationism4Mark Isaak
5 Apr 24   i `* Re: West Virginia creationism6Arkalen
30 Mar 24   +* Re: West Virginia creationism7Burkhard
3 Apr 24   `* Re: West Virginia creationism2Richmond

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