Re: Creationism, Intelligent Design and Vendanta

On 8/8/2024 6:39 AM, Ernest Major wrote:

On 08/08/2024 12:20, RonO wrote:

On 8/8/2024 5:20 AM, Ernest Major wrote:

On 08/08/2024 10:09, Burkhard wrote:

On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 16:24:30 +0000, Kestrel Clayton wrote:
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On 06-Aug-24 09:46, RonO wrote:

I found an article on creationism, intelligent design and Vendanta. Even
though Kalkidas came out as a normal Biblical creationists there have
been Hindu sympathetic to Scientific Creationism and the ID creationist
scam on TO.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4802803/
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The author thinks that science is a search for truth.  I have never
considered science to be a search for truth.  It is just the best means
we have of developing a working understanding of nature.  This
understanding may not be the "truth" but it could be close, and allows
us to improve our understanding of nature and expand a functional
understanding of the reality that we exist in.
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I do not recall Kalk ever stating how intelligent design supported his
hindu beliefs, and vice versa, but he did quote the Vedas from time to
time.
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A section of the paper compares Vendata to the ID creationist scam.

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Huh. I missed Kalkidas coming out as a fundamentalist Christian
creationist. Did he have a conversion experience, or was he a Christian
all along and lying about it?

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neither, as far as I can tell. Though of course conversions, while
comparatively rare, do happen. But as far as I'm aware, he always was
and  still is a follower of Vaishnavism.
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He only ever objected to certain labels (with some good reasons I'd say)
so
the use of the exonym Hinduism
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Either way, I'm not all that surprised. For a lot of folks, denialism
isn't about what is, but rather what ISN'T: Moon landing denialists will
gladly accommodate flat-Earthers, orbit-onlyists,
fake-landings-real-pictures, fake-pictures-real-landings, and even
"secret nazi base on the far side of the Moon" crackpots, as long as
they all agree that the official account is somehow bogus.

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Well, that's possibly closer the issue, as you, me and pretty much all
other contributors to TO on the science side are dead, we just
did not get the memo yet - the bioengineered Covid vaccine killed
us all, as planned by the oligarchs, for reasons unknown. Or so
Kalkidas
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As I recall, as few months back he said that he was a Christian, or at least something that was readily interpreted as that.
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When the Top Six came out in Nov. 2017 Kalk tried to go with Glenn and run from what the ID perps had just told them.  Bill just quit the ID scam and claimed that he had never supported the ID scam (everyone knows that Bill has been an IDiot from when he first started to post here). Bill likely meant that he had never supported what the ID scam had always been.  Pagano claimed that the Top Six were bogus, and were not the best evidence for the ID creationist scam.  He tried to put up Dembski's junk instead, but Dembski had retired from the ID scam as an abject failure and none of his junk had made it into what the other ID perps considered to be the best evidence for ID.  Pagano quit posting. Nyikos was MIA and after his return to TO he was clueless for years about what the Top Six had done to the ID scam.  When Nyikos finally addressed the Top Six it destroyed his space alien fantasy.  Nyikos started going on about god like space aliens from another universe could account for the Top Six.  It turned out that Nyikos had always been supporting the ID scam to support his religious beliefs.  Dean kept claiming that he did not remember not being able to deal with them every time he came back to post to TO.  MarkE was likely never an IDiot, but he could not give up on the god-of-the-gaps denial and started putting the Top Six up one at a time, but he found that he could not deal with them one at a time either when he spent a lot of time defining what was around the origin of life gap in order to claim that the gap would never be filled.  It turned out that the god that filled that gap was not the Biblical god, and MarkE quit putting up the lame Top Six gap denials. After a few months of running from the Top Six and just trying to post the second rate junk that the ID perps were still putting out Kalk claimed to quit supporting the ID scam.  He claimed that the ID scam junk was no longer worth thinking about.  Around that same time he admitted that he was not Hindu, and claimed that he had never claimed to be Hindu.  That was in 2018, and I recall having to give a link to that post for someone that had missed the event, but I didn't save the link anywhere, or I'd put it up again.
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Ron Okimoto
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 Denying that he's a Hindu is not the same as stating that he's a Christian, and is not inconsistent with Burkhard's characterisation of his position.
 

When he claimed that the ID scam was no longer of interest to him, Kalk claimed that he was more interested in other aspects of his religious beliefs. It turned out that he was just another biblical creationist, but could be an old earth creationist if that also wasn't a put on. Kalk has added to his initial admission through the years.  You can likely ask him if he ever posts again.  My guess is that creationism lost out and he decided to transfer his efforts to the resurrection and salvation and such.  Most Christians that are anti-evolution IDiotic types are that way because they think that the fact of evolution, age of the earth and such mean that the Bible can be wrong, and they do not want the Bible to be wrong about the central Christian tenets.  The ICR's and AIG's arguments against old earth creationism have always been that the Bible needs to be inerrant, or there is no reason to believe everything else.  Even though Bill gave up on IDiocy, he can't give up on the denial in order to keep believing what he does, so he decided to go with his "reality doesn't exist" claims because this reality isn't consistent with any reasonable literal Biblical interpretation.  The god that fills the Top Six gaps that are the best evidence for IDiocy is not their Biblical god.
The West Virginia creationist rubes that just passed their teach ID Act do not even know what would be taught.  The ID perps have never put up a lesson plan, and #1 of the Top Six is the Big Bang, and it is a topic (along with biological evolution) that the IDiotic type creationists have already removed from the public school Science standards in Kansas, and they have tried to do it in states like Texas and Oklahoma.  IDiotic type creationists do not want to teach the Top Six in an honest and straightforward manner because the god the fills those six gaps is not their Biblical god.  The West Virginia rubes will not want to teach the best evidence for the ID scam.  Kalk could not deal with the Top Six due to his Biblical beliefs, quit the ID scam, and came out as what he had always been.  Kalk had likely only pretended to be Hindu in order to lend some credence to his creationist support for the ID scam.
Ron Okimoto