Re: Top three reasons for optimism about the ID scam

On Wed, 04 Dec 2024 11:05:11 -0800, Vincent Maycock
<maycock@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, 04 Dec 2024 17:10:54 +0000, Martin Harran
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
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On Tue, 03 Dec 2024 10:43:33 -0800, Vincent Maycock
<maycock@gmail.com> wrote:
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On Tue, 03 Dec 2024 14:20:07 +0000, Martin Harran
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
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On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 09:08:28 -0600, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com> wrote:
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[...]
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My take is that most Christians no longer fear God in this way.  It is
why most Catholics are just fine with the Heliocentric heresy.
Heliocentrism was never removed as a heresy in the Church. 

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It was never removed as a heresy because it never was a heresy. You
have been told that multiple times, yet you persist in stating it.

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Galileo's works were on the Catholic prohibited list until way into
the 18th century.

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They should never have been on it in the first place as there was
nothing heretical about them

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Except that the Bible says the earth does not move.
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but the extremely bureaucratic Curia
moves very slowly in recognising its errors, let alone correcting
them.
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The Galileo affair was essentially a clash of personalities and the
Pope badly misusing his authority to satisfy his personal pique at
being treated as he saw it as an idiot by Galileo

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Right.  Even today, that "Simplicio" stuff is hilarious satire.
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and made subject to
public scorn. FWIW, I think things probably ended up going a lot
farther that the Pope intended and that is likely why he converted
Galileo's imprisonment to a very loose form of house arrest in a
luxury villa where he was able to carry on with his other scientific
studies.

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With the key being "other."  He was forbidden to go back to his
research on Copernican ideas.  That meant keeping track of who visited
him and where he would like to travel to.
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Do I understand correctly that you agree that the Catholic Church has
made *some* mistakes in the past, though?

Of course they did and I have never disputed that. What I seek to
correct is the *wrong* mistakes being attacked. The mistake in the
Galileo affair wasn't that he was guilty of heresy, it was that the
Pope allowed personal pique to permit misuse of Church procedures.
*That* was indefensible and is what needs to be called out.

We should not be surprised, however, about the Church making mistakes,
it's leaders are human and as prone to misdeeds as anyone else. It's
perhaps worth reminding ourselves what Jesus said: "“I have not come
to call the righteous but sinners to repentance” (Matthew 9:13)

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It was only
down graded, to a more minor heresy

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There is no such thing as a "minor" heresy. There are degrees of
heresy including one of being *suspected* of heresy which was what
Galile was charged with.

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Galileo's views were found to be "contrary to Holy Scriptures" and as
such were not to be held, defended, or taught.   Galileo swore up and
down that he wasn't interested in the Copernican ideas he had
published on, but no one believed him, and he was sentenced to house
arrest for the short remainder of his life.
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