Re: Autocatalytic sets: less worse than RNA World?

On 12/01/2025 10:35 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

On 2025-01-12 08:36:28 +0000, MarkE said:
 [ … ]
 

Several authors (including Kauffman, Dyson, Eigen, Schuster, Rosen, Ganti, Prigogine,
 Maturana, and Varela) posited some form of collective autocatalysis or chemical closure as central in the origins of life (OoL)."
- Joana Xavier

 [ … ]
 

The field is badly fragmented. ...
- Stuart Kauffman

 Yes, but why? These people came from very different backgrounds: Dyson, physicist; Eigen, physical chemist; Rosen, mathematical biologist; Gánti, engineer; Maturana and Varela, neuroscientists; etc. There is little evidence that any of them knew one another (other, of course, than ones who worked together, Eigen & Schuster; Maturana & Varela) or interacted with one another (Rosen and Varela were introduced to one another once at a meeting by someone who thought that they would have lots to say to one another; they didn't find anything to discuss). There are almost no cross-references in the publications of any of these groups.  That's a pity, but that's how it was. It's a bit late now, as I think Kauffman and Schuster are the only ones who are still alive.
 My colleagues María Luz Cárdenas and Juan-Carlos Letelier and I are almost the _only_ people who have made any attempt to make a synthesis of the ideas of the giants that you have mentioned (see BioSystems 188 (2020) 104063). If you're not just quote-mining from work that you don't understand, maybe you could try yourself, but don't imagine it will be easy.

Interesting first-hand background, thanks. OoL is by nature a diverse and interdisciplinary field, which would partially explain the fragmentation.
Is Kauffman's claim legitimate? "It is true that some major researchers in the origin of life field have given up in despair."

>
_________
>
>
Regardless, there appear to be several compelling reasons why autocatalytic sets won't work for OoL:
>
The concept of autocatalytic sets has been widely discussed as a potential mechanism for the origin of life, particularly in the context of abiogenesis. These sets consist of networks of molecules in which each molecule is catalyzed by others in the set, allowing self- sustaining chemical processes. While the concept has theoretical appeal, it has also faced significant criticisms and challenges. Below are some of the key criticisms:

 All presented without citations, or even mention of the names of the people (scientists? journalists? creationists?) who make these "criticisms". If you want to be taken seriously you need to include some basic information.
 [ … ]