Re: Paradoxes

On 26/01/2025 2:56 pm, Vincent Maycock wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 14:08:35 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
 

On 26/01/2025 5:31 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 22:42:49 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
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On 25/01/2025 12:17 pm, Vincent Maycock wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 15:57:58 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
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On 24/01/2025 2:17 pm, Mark Isaak wrote:

On 1/22/25 4:37 AM, MarkE wrote:

On 22/01/2025 1:56 pm, Mark Isaak wrote:

On 1/17/25 2:59 PM, MarkE wrote:

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Here's a serious question regarding nonintervention, from genuine
wondering on my part. It seems to me there are different forms of
theistic evolution with respect to intervention, which might be
characterised as:
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1. E.g. speciation "download" (significant interventions; detectable)
2. Nudging the molecules (subtle interventions; detectable in
principle)
3. Quantum event loading (probabilistic interventions; undetectable?)
4. Pure front-loading (initial intervention only; undetectable)

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I take issue with your nomenclature. Those items (1-4) are not forms
of theistic anything. They are forms of unknown superpower
intervention. Even if one of those scenarios is fact, there is no
reason to say that the actor behind it is a god.
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I'm okay with "God" equals "unknown superpower" for the purpose of
this discussion.

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You seem to have a very naturalistic view of God.
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I'm really just acknowledging that, in this context, it's only possible
to make a generic reference to the inferred supernatural agent.

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Why can't you go beyond a generic reference, here?
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Because the context and scope of this discussion is defining the logical
structure and options regarding supernatural intervention generally.

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When do you move beyond that, if ever?  Why or why not?
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Vince, what do you really want to discuss, and why?

 Whether supernatural intervention per se is a properly formed
scientific hypothesis.  My position is that it's not; in fact it may
be not just anti-science but anti-intellectual as well.  I think this
is something that could bear some clarification in ID/evolution
debates.  For example, what distinguishes supernatural intervention
from superstition?
 

I suggest a first step is to establish a logical and complete set of overarching possibilities, which I would state as:
1. Either the universe has always existed or it came into existence without supernatural intervention, and in either case it develops without supernatural intervention; or
2. The universe came into existence with supernatural intervention, and/or it develops with supernatural intervention
Would you agree with this, or how would you put it?