Re: The status of ID

On 2/27/2025 4:55 PM, MarkE wrote:

On 28/02/2025 8:23 am, RonO wrote:

On 2/27/2025 1:03 PM, RonO wrote:

SNIP:
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I tried to find out what the current status of the ID creationist bait and switch scam is at this time.  It doesn't seem to be growing, but pretty much imploding.
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They are still claiming that ID can be taught in the US public schools, and that the Kitzmiller decision was wrong and that even though ID was found to not be science and could not be taught in the public schools, that the ID creationist scam is still legal to teach in the public schools outside of Dover Penn.  They make their waffling warnings, but their advice to educators is that ID can still be taught in the public schools and they lie to them about it being legal to teach the junk. They already know that it is illegal to teach what they have, and it doesn't really matter that the same finding has not been made in other legal districts.  IDiots like Louisiana, Texas, Utah and West Virginia are still willing to believe the lies (Utah dropped the issue when the bait and switch was run on them, but Texas, Louisiana, and West Virginia wanted to teach ID in their public schools even after the loss in Dover).
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https://www.discovery.org/f/1453/
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The Discovery Institute published a 2021 version of this educator's breifing packet, but they subsequently reformated the web site and it looks like they have reverted to their 2018 version.
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The West Virginia creationists have been the last bunch of creationist rubes to take the bait, and in 2023 sent an act to the Governor that stated that teachers could not be prohibited from teaching intelligent design.  The bill was not signed, and the Discovery Institute was able to run the bait and switch on the legislator responsible, and she removed intelligent design from the bill.  It was signed by the Governor in 2024 with the obfuscation and denial switch scam language instead of the claims about intelligent design, but the stupid legislator continued to claim that intelligent design was going to be taught in the West Virginia schools even though she had, had to remove mentioning it from the act.  The Discovery Institute had to continue to run the bait and switch after the passage of the switch scam stupidity.  The West Virginia creationist rubes were too stupid to understand what the bait and switch scam has been for over 2 decades. Just like Louisiana and Texas they have to be reminded that the switch scam doesn't even mention that ID nor creationism ever existed.
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The Bait and Switch has been going down 100% of the time since March 2002, and has been mostly a failure and embarassment for the ID perps. Nearly all the creationist rubes that have taken the bait have not bent over for the switch scam, and have dropped the issue.  As West Virginia represents, the creationist rubes that did bend over for the switch scam did it for dishonest reasons.  None of them have been interested in actually teaching the obfuscation and denial stupidity, and Louisiana has tried to use the switch scam to teach ID twice and have had to have the bait and switch run on them repeatedly.  The last time was in 2013 when both Texas and Louisiana tried to use their switch scam stupidity to get ID supplements into biology textbooks. Louisiana called what was in their supplement both creationism and intelligent design.  The ID perps had to run the bait and switch again on both states.  They had to remind the rubes that the switch scam was supposed to have nothing to do with ID nor creationism.
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It was 4 years before Utah had to have the bait and switch run on them in 2017, and 6 years before the West Virginia rubes needed to have the bait and switch run on them in 2023, and then again in 2024.  There likely are not very many creationist rubes left that remain dishonest, ignorant and stupid enough to take the bait.
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It looks like the traction of the ID creationist scam is waning, but MarkE believes that the ID creationist scam is still viable.
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Pretty much nothing that I could find indicated that the ID scam was being taken seriously by even other creationists.  The Reason to Believe old earth creationists used to claim to be IDiots, and were claiming to use the ID science to create their creation model.  They no longer make any claims about being ID advocates, and their recent anti-evolution junk no longer mentions intelligent design.  Their current history on their web site no longer has intelligent design as part of their efforts, and there is no explanation for the change.
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https://reasons.org/single/creation-model-approach
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In 2019 the Discovery Institute announced the start of an ID scam unit in Austria.  It looks like it was stillborn, and not much was ever done there.
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Google QUOTE:
In 2019, a pro-intelligent design (ID) group, the "Zentrum für Biokomplexität & NaturTeleologie" (Center for BioComplexity & Natural Teleology) in Austria, published a webpage promoting ID-creationism in cooperation with the Discovery Institute/Center for Science & Culture
END QUOTE:
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https://www.biocomplexity.at/projekte/
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They have a list of projects, but only one seems to have started the first one listed.  The others are claimed to be "in progress".
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They haven't had an event since 2022, and that seems to be the last time they updated their web site.
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QUOTE:
Next event:
2022:  Virtual General Meeting for all club members via Zoom video conference on July 29, 2022 at 18:30 CET
END QUOTE:
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Bechly is still listed as their chairman, with no notice that he died last year, 2 years after their last scheduled event.
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Uncommon descent was closed by the ID perps a few years ago, so ID doesn't seem to have any significant support outside of the ID scam unit at the Discovery Institute.
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The ID network reopened their web site after over half a decade of trying to sell the switch scam as COPE without ID in the name of their organization, but they haven't had a press release since before they closed their site in 2009 and said that you could find them associated with COPE.  They seem to only be claiming to still be IDiots, but are not doing anything to promote the ID creationist scam at this time. They had zero success trying to sell the switch scam as COPE.
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http://intelligentdesignnetwork.org/
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The Intelligent Design Network of Ohio and New Mexico remain defunct.
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There don't seem to be any "academics" that were once associated with the ID networks that are still active in trying to sell the ID scam to the public.
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The ID perps at the Discovery Institute seem to be the only ones left trying to use ID as bait to promote their creationist political agenda.
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As a sidenote I found out that the Discovery Institute had taken over the IDEA IDiotic club effort that Luskin had started way back before the bait and switch started to go down.  There were a number of clubs active at Universities across the US.  Most of them were converted scientific creationist clubs, and the bait and switch ended up killing both ID and scientific creationism at those universities.  When I looked it up it seemed like only one club had survived after 2002. None of the students seemed to wanted to discuss the switch scam. Only one club updated their web site after 2002, and I couldn't find the clubs registered as clubs at their Universities even though they were still listed at the IDEA web site.
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https://roots.discovery.org/ideaclubs/
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It looks like they are trying to foster local IDiotic book clubs. These are likely mostly Bible study groups that have added ID scam junk to their reading list.  It has to be sad to have creationists ignorant and stupid enough to still take the bait, trying to discuss the ID scam literature.
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Ron Okimoto
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https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8175246/
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I found this historical account when looking for any evidence that the ID scam was growing in it's traction among Biblical creationists still stupid enough to be attracted to the scam, and couldn't find any such evidence, but I did find this historical account that links ID with it's creationist predessors.  Thaxton and Kenyon were scientific creationists, and Meyer wrote the teachers notes to Of Pandas and People and Behe admitted that he had written portions of the book, but had not been credited.  The claim is that the Austrian IDiots have links to an older scientific creationist-like German organization. They all share the religioius-political beliefs of the scientific creationists and ID perps.
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Ron Okimoto
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 There was also International Society for Complexity, Information, and Design (ISCID), now defunct.
https://www.arn.org/docs2/news/launchofiscid120501.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ International_Society_for_Complexity,_Information,_and_Design

The ISCID went moribund after the bait and switch started to go down, no new papers were put up after 2003.  The ID perps dressed up the site when Dover hit the fan in 2005, and they actually deleted some of papers that had been up on the web site for years.  You can go to the ISCID archive and you won't find the flood geology paper, yes, a paper trying to support Noah's flood.  That was they type of scholarship that the ID perps did not want to retain on the ISCID archive.
When the bait and switch went down activity at the ISCID web site dropped considerably, and the last paper was put up early in 2003. After that, nothing until the ID perps had to try to clean up the site in 2005.

 ID, as part of a broader creationist position, has many different paths and personalities, starts and stops, progress and dead-ends, and yes, at times errors, failures, and possibly dishonesty. However, this is to be expected when many fallible humans over decades grapple with the complex, multidisciplinary high-stakes question of origins and its implications.

The current ID creationist scam is part of a pretty narrow political religious segment of the creationists that exist in the US.  They initially conned a diverse array of creationists into supporting their political stupidity, but that only lasted until the bait and switch started to go down, and the ID perps resorted to pushing an obfuscation and denial switch scam onto the creationist rubes in order to move the Wedge strategy forward.  The diverse array of creationists abandoned the ID scam at that point.
Really, creationists like the guy pushing his zero point god hypothesis were members of the ISCID, but that ended when the bait and switch started to go down.  After the bait and switch started in 2002 the only IDiots left there were Biblical creationists like Sewell who later became an ID perp fellow of the ID scam unit at the Discovery Institute. Only the ID perps willing to keep using ID as bait are still pushing the ID scam.

 Moreover, this is inherent in this endeavour with all camps and perspectives. The history and status of the science and its interpretation by both naturalists and supernaturalists bears this out, e.g.
 Origin of Life:
- RNA world, peptide/metabolism-First, lipid-First, messy-world etc
- Hydrothermal vents, Warm Little Ponds, etc
- Panspermia
- Multiverse
 Evolution:
- Adaptationism, structuralism, neutral theory
- Punctuated equilibrium, gradualism
- Extended Evolutionary Synthesis (EES), Modern Synthesis
- Evo-Devo
- Third Way
 What is ID's future? I think ID or something like it will find growing traction as science discovers more and more functional complexity and precision in living systems that will prove increasingly difficult for naturalism to account for.
 

None of this supports the current ID scam as it currently exists.  Tour understands this, and does not claim to be supporting the ID scam.  He just can't give up on the gap denial.  It is all creationists that supported the ID scam's political goals have left to push the political scam forward.
There is no growing traction for ID in science because there never was any intent to accomplish any ID science.  If any ID science is accomplished the YEC political base that represent the vast majority of IDiots supporting the current ID scam would be lost.  The Big Tent never existed because there is only one creation for science to study, and that creation is not the one described in the Bible.  Any legitimate ID science would demonstrate that to be true.  That is why there is no serious effort to actually apply any intelligent design "inferences" to the real world.
The last thing that the ID perp scam artists want to happen is for any legitimate ID science to be accomplished by anyone.  They would lose the vast majority of their financial and political support base because that science would just be more science for the type of Biblical creationists, that support the ID scam, to deny.
Ron Okimoto