What group are you currently in? The behaving poorly group seems to have you as a current member. Did you always have to lie to yourself about the ID scam, or were you just willfully ignorant (another form of dishonesty)? I guess you could claim that you were so clueless that you remained unaware of what you were supporting until the ID perps shot themselves in the head and made you realize that you had never wanted them to produce any valid ID science. You still do not want the origin of life gap to be filled, and you are still into evolution denial even though the ID perps Behe and Denton have been telling you for decades that you are just wrong about that.
My take is that the ID perps have always been fully aware of the scam that they are perpetrating on their creationist support base. The Big Bang is #1 of their Top Six god-of-the-gaps best evidences for the ID scam. Yes, the scientific creationists would routinely use the same gap argument to con the rubes, but they only used it as a fire and forget bit of denial that the creationists like you were supposed to forget as they went to the next gap denial argument. The ID perps screwed up by placing their gaps "in the order in which they must have occured in this universe" and killed the ID scam on TO. You know that this is true because the Big Bang is one of the science topics that the Biblical creationists have wanted to remove, along with biological evolution, from their science standards in multiple states, and they succeeded for a while in Kansas in 1999 before the creationist board could be voted out, and the standards restored. The Top Six should tell anyone that the ID perps never had any science that the creationist rubes would want to teach. The ID perps had to start running the bait and switch because even their bogus psuedo science would have destroyed their "Big Tent" creationist scam that they were running on the rubes. Science is just the study of nature, and the ID perps have to deal with the one nature that exists, so any valid ID science would have never supported all the varied creationist Biblical beliefs. It turns out that the ID science doesn't support any creationists beliefs based on what the creationists believe that the Bible tells them. Nature is not the creation described in the Bible.
Biblical creationists like yourself have to start dealing with reality. The earth is not flat. The universe is not geocentric. There is no firmament above the earth that needs to be opened to let the rain fall through. The sun and moon were not created during the 4th period of time after land plants were the first lifeforms created during the 3rd period of time. The Big Bang (#1 of the Top Six) and what happened since is not recorded as such in the Bible. Our solar system was formed out of material created by 8 billion years of star deaths in a star poor region of our galaxy (it took 8 billion years to create the elements that our solar system is composed of). The fine tuning for life that the ID perps are claiming as #2 of the Top Six took over 8 billion years to accomplish. The origin of life (#3 of the Top Six) occurred over 3 billion years ago, and may have occurred even earlier soon after the earth cooled enough to have liquid water. Life evolved as micro organisms (never mentioned in the Bible) for billions of years before multicellular life began to evolve on this planet. The bacterial flagellum (#4 of the Top Six) evolved among bacteria over a billion years ago. A multitude of sea creatures evolved during the Cambrian explosion (#5 of the Top Six) within a 25 million year period of time over half a billion years ago. This would be over a hundred million years before land plants evolved from fresh water algae. The gaps in the human fossil record are well defined periods of time within the last 10 million years of the existence of life on earth (how else could they be claimed as gaps?). If the ID perps had really had any valid ID science YEC like Nelson and Kenyon would have never joined the ID scam in order to support the Wedge goals. The Reason to Believe old earth creationists can't fit the Top Six into their Biblical creation model. They want to maintain an order of creation of life on earth that never happened, and they need to rewrite (not reinterpret) portions of the Bible in order to have the sun and moon created before the 4th period of time. They claim that the 4th day account was poorly written. Even though the Hebrew word for made or make was used to describe the creation of the sun and moon, they claim that the authors of the Bible actually wanted to write that the sun and moon were just made visible on the 4th day. They claim that a vapor shroud so dense and stable that it blocked the view of the sun and moon from the surface of the earth for billions of years before the shroud was lifted on the 4th day. This is just stupid since their designer would have been the only being around for billions of years, and would have likely had no difficulty "seeing" the sun and moon.
| Date | Sujet | # | | Auteur |
| 1 Apr 26 |  Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 346 | | ShyDavid |
| 1 Apr 26 |  Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 2 | | RonO |
| 2 Apr 26 |    Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 1 | | ShyDavid |
| 1 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 343 | | MarkE |
| 2 Apr 26 |  Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 61 | | RonO |
| 2 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 58 | | MarkE |
| 2 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 1 | | RonO |
| 2 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 5 | | ShyDavid |
| 2 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Kerr-Mudd, John |
| 4 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 3 | | MarkE |
| 4 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 2 | | RonO |
| 4 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 1 | | ShyDavid |
| 4 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 51 | | Martin Harran |
| 4 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 29 | | Ernest Major |
| 5 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 28 | | Martin Harran |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 22 | | John Harshman |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 21 | | Martin Harran |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 20 | | John Harshman |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 3 | | Ernest Major |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | John Harshman |
| 7 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Martin Harran |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Ernest Major |
| 7 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 15 | | Martin Harran |
| 8 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 14 | | John Harshman |
| 8 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 13 | | Martin Harran |
| 8 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 12 | | John Harshman |
| 9 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 11 | | Martin Harran |
| 9 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 10 | | John Harshman |
| 9 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | William Hyde |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 8 | | ShyDavid |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 7 | | John Harshman |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 4 | | ShyDavid |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | John Harshman |
| 13 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 2 | | John Harshman |
| 13 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | RonO |
| 13 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 2 | | Martin Harran |
| 13 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | John Harshman |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 5 | | WolfFan |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 3 | | ShyDavid |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Kerr-Mudd, John |
| 12 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Mark Isaak |
| 13 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Martin Harran |
| 16 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 21 | | Kerr-Mudd, John |
| 16 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 20 | | sticks |
| 16 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | ShyDavid |
| 16 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Vincent Maycock |
| 17 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Kerr-Mudd, John |
| 18 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 15 | | Martin Harran |
| 18 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 14 | | sticks |
| 18 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | ShyDavid |
| 20 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 11 | | Mark Isaak |
| 20 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 10 | | sticks |
| 21 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 9 | | Mark Isaak |
| 21 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 8 | | sticks |
| 23 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 7 | | Mark Isaak |
| 23 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 6 | | sticks |
| 23 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Vincent Maycock |
| 25 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 4 | | Mark Isaak |
| 25 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 3 | | sticks |
| 26 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Vincent Maycock |
| 27 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Mark Isaak |
| 20 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Martin Harran |
| 18 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Mark Isaak |
| 2 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 2 | | MarkE |
| 2 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 1 | | RonO |
| 2 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 281 | | ShyDavid |
| 4 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 280 | | MarkE |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 253 | | MarkE |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 252 | | ShyDavid |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 2 | | sticks |
| 7 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 1 | | ShyDavid |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 249 | | MarkE |
| 7 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 248 | | MarkE |
| 7 Apr 26 | gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 247 | | Kerr-Mudd, John |
| 7 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 246 | | MarkE |
| 8 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 244 | | RonO |
| 8 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 242 | | MarkE |
| 8 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 239 | | RonO |
| 8 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 238 | | MarkE |
| 8 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 237 | | RonO |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 236 | | MarkE |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 221 | | RonO |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 219 | | MarkE |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 218 | | RonO |
| 11 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 217 | | MarkE |
| 11 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 188 | | RonO |
| 11 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 187 | | MarkE |
| 12 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 186 | | RonO |
| 12 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 143 | | MarkE |
| 12 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 142 | | RonO |
| 13 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 141 | | MarkE |
| 13 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 140 | | RonO |
| 13 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 139 | | MarkE |
| 14 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 138 | | RonO |
| 14 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 2 | | MarkE |
| 14 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 1 | | RonO |
| 15 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 135 | | Martin Harran |
| 15 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 132 | | Kerr-Mudd, John |
| 15 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 131 | | Martin Harran |
| 15 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 1 | | Kerr-Mudd, John |
| 15 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 129 | | RonO |
| 15 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 2 | | MarkE |
| 13 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 42 | | Martin Harran |
| 15 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 28 | | sticks |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 1 | | ShyDavid |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 11 | | Kerr-Mudd, John |
| 10 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 3 | | ShyDavid |
| 9 Apr 26 | Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won | 2 | | Martin Harran |
| 8 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 1 | | ShyDavid |
| 8 Apr 26 | Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 1 | | ShyDavid |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 25 | | Mark Isaak |
| 6 Apr 26 | Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won | 1 | | RonO |