Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won

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Sujet : Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won
De : martinharran (at) *nospam* gmail.com (Martin Harran)
Groupes : talk.origins
Date : 18. Apr 2026, 12:53:28
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2026 11:53:29 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
wrote:

On 4/16/2026 6:29 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>
Ron posts some absolute rubbish about religion and religious
believers, but he is right on that specific point. I have repeatedly
asked you and other ID'ers to explain how you get from a God fiddling
about with atoms and molecules (AKA 'fine tuning') to the God that you
and I and most of them believe in, a God with whom we can have a
personal relationship. None of you have been able to offer any
suggestion. Until you deal with that, you are going to have problems
with believers like myself, never mind with scientists.
>
I imagine MarkE is uncomfortable with this
>
Speaking for myself, not at all.  I fail to see the difficulty to be
honest.  For one thing, I don't think God was "fiddling" at the time of
creation. 

You have stated elsewhere how fine tuning is important to the
conclusions you have drawn about scientific claims on the origin of
life. Perhaps you don't like my word "fiddling" but you seem to be
essentially saying that God directly created all those constants that
enable life to exist on this earth.

Next, the two are completely unrelated. 

To me, the fact that there is only one God means that*every* aspect of
that God is interrelated. As part of my Christian faith, I have to
combine God in the Old Testament with Christ in the New Testament.
Similarly, if God created life by directly creating the constants in
fine tuning, then I have to somehow combine those two with the God I
understand from the Bible.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you here. Do you believe that God
directly created humans with no evolution from previous lifeforms?

If one wants to
understand how an individual feels he can have a personal relationship
with God, that's one thing, though I don't see how it is relevant to
origins.  But in suggesting that an all-powerful creator would be
difficult to have a personal relationship with does not make much sense
to me.  The opposite would be more appropriate, especially if that
creator was the Christian God.
>
So, why don't you insert something interesting of your own for once,
John.  Give us your reasoning for responding to this instead of your
usual modus operandi of just showing up to throw bombs.  It's tiresome.


Date Sujet#  Auteur
1 Apr 26 * Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won346ShyDavid
1 Apr 26 +* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won2RonO
2 Apr 26 i`- Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won1ShyDavid
1 Apr 26 `* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won343MarkE
2 Apr 26  +* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won61RonO
2 Apr 26  i+* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won58MarkE
2 Apr 26  ii+- Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won1RonO
2 Apr 26  ii+* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won5ShyDavid
2 Apr 26  iii+- Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won1Kerr-Mudd, John
4 Apr 26  iii`* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won3MarkE
4 Apr 26  iii `* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won2RonO
4 Apr 26  iii  `- Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won1ShyDavid
4 Apr 26  ii`* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won51Martin Harran
4 Apr 26  ii +* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won29Ernest Major
5 Apr 26  ii i`* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won28Martin Harran
6 Apr 26  ii i +* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won22John Harshman
6 Apr 26  ii i i`* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won21Martin Harran
6 Apr 26  ii i i `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won20John Harshman
6 Apr 26  ii i i  +* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won3Ernest Major
6 Apr 26  ii i i  i+- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1John Harshman
7 Apr 26  ii i i  i`- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Martin Harran
6 Apr 26  ii i i  +- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Ernest Major
7 Apr 26  ii i i  `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won15Martin Harran
8 Apr 26  ii i i   `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won14John Harshman
8 Apr 26  ii i i    `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won13Martin Harran
8 Apr 26  ii i i     `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won12John Harshman
9 Apr 26  ii i i      `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won11Martin Harran
9 Apr 26  ii i i       `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won10John Harshman
9 Apr 26  ii i i        +- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1William Hyde
10 Apr 26  ii i i        `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won8ShyDavid
10 Apr 26  ii i i         `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won7John Harshman
10 Apr 26  ii i i          +* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won4ShyDavid
10 Apr 26  ii i i          i+- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1John Harshman
13 Apr 26  ii i i          i`* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won2John Harshman
13 Apr 26  ii i i          i `- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1RonO
13 Apr 26  ii i i          `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won2Martin Harran
13 Apr 26  ii i i           `- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1John Harshman
10 Apr 26  ii i `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won5WolfFan
10 Apr 26  ii i  +* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won3ShyDavid
10 Apr 26  ii i  i+- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Kerr-Mudd, John
12 Apr 26  ii i  i`- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Mark Isaak
13 Apr 26  ii i  `- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Martin Harran
16 Apr 26  ii `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won21Kerr-Mudd, John
16 Apr 26  ii  `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won20sticks
16 Apr 26  ii   +- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1ShyDavid
16 Apr 26  ii   +- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Vincent Maycock
17 Apr 26  ii   +- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Kerr-Mudd, John
18 Apr 26  ii   +* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won15Martin Harran
18 Apr 26  ii   i`* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won14sticks
18 Apr 26  ii   i +- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1ShyDavid
20 Apr 26  ii   i +* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won11Mark Isaak
20 Apr 26  ii   i i`* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won10sticks
21 Apr 26  ii   i i `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won9Mark Isaak
21 Apr 26  ii   i i  `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won8sticks
23 Apr 26  ii   i i   `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won7Mark Isaak
23 Apr 26  ii   i i    `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won6sticks
23 Apr 26  ii   i i     +- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Vincent Maycock
25 Apr 26  ii   i i     `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won4Mark Isaak
25 Apr 26  ii   i i      `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won3sticks
26 Apr 26  ii   i i       +- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Vincent Maycock
27 Apr 26  ii   i i       `- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Mark Isaak
20 Apr 26  ii   i `- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Martin Harran
18 Apr 26  ii   `- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Mark Isaak
2 Apr 26  i`* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won2MarkE
2 Apr 26  i `- Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won1RonO
2 Apr 26  `* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won281ShyDavid
4 Apr 26   `* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won280MarkE
6 Apr 26    +* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won253MarkE
6 Apr 26    i`* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won252ShyDavid
6 Apr 26    i +* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won2sticks
7 Apr 26    i i`- Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won1ShyDavid
6 Apr 26    i `* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won249MarkE
7 Apr 26    i  `* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won248MarkE
7 Apr 26    i   `* gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won247Kerr-Mudd, John
7 Apr 26    i    `* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won246MarkE
8 Apr 26    i     +* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won244RonO
8 Apr 26    i     i+* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won242MarkE
8 Apr 26    i     ii+* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won239RonO
8 Apr 26    i     iii`* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won238MarkE
8 Apr 26    i     iii `* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won237RonO
10 Apr 26    i     iii  `* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won236MarkE
10 Apr 26    i     iii   +* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won221RonO
10 Apr 26    i     iii   i+* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won219MarkE
10 Apr 26    i     iii   ii`* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won218RonO
11 Apr 26    i     iii   ii `* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won217MarkE
11 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  +* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won188RonO
11 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i`* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won187MarkE
12 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i `* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won186RonO
12 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  +* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won143MarkE
12 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i`* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won142RonO
13 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i `* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won141MarkE
13 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i  `* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won140RonO
13 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i   `* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won139MarkE
14 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i    `* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won138RonO
14 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i     +* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won2MarkE
14 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i     i`- Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won1RonO
15 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i     `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won135Martin Harran
15 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i      +* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won132Kerr-Mudd, John
15 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i      i`* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won131Martin Harran
15 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i      i +- Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won1Kerr-Mudd, John
15 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i      i `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won129RonO
15 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  i      `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won2MarkE
13 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  i  `* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won42Martin Harran
15 Apr 26    i     iii   ii  `* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won28sticks
10 Apr 26    i     iii   i`- Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won1ShyDavid
10 Apr 26    i     iii   +* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won11Kerr-Mudd, John
10 Apr 26    i     iii   `* Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won3ShyDavid
9 Apr 26    i     ii`* Re: The Debate Has Been Settled - Creationism Has Won2Martin Harran
8 Apr 26    i     i`- Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won1ShyDavid
8 Apr 26    i     `- Re: gods (was april fool: Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won1ShyDavid
6 Apr 26    +* Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won25Mark Isaak
6 Apr 26    `- Re: Effective Tomorrow, We Will Be Archiving the newsgroup. The Debate Has Been Settled — Creationism Has Won1RonO

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