Re: Every D(D) is correctly simulated by H

Liste des GroupesRevenir à theory 
Sujet : Re: Every D(D) is correctly simulated by H
De : mikko.levanto (at) *nospam* iki.fi (Mikko)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 20. May 2024, 09:35:23
Autres entêtes
Organisation : -
Message-ID : <v2f20b$3t5lt$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
User-Agent : Unison/2.2
On 2024-05-19 19:29:01 +0000, olcott said:

On 5/19/2024 2:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 5/19/24 2:13 PM, olcott wrote:
On 5/19/2024 12:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 5/19/24 10:03 AM, olcott wrote:
On 5/19/2024 8:48 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-19 12:34:08 +0000, olcott said:
 
On 5/19/2024 2:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-18 15:34:36 +0000, James Kuyper said:
 
On 5/18/24 09:02, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-17 17:14:01 +0000, olcott said:
 I recommend ignoring olcott - nothing good ever comes from paying
attention to him.
 
On 5/17/2024 5:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-16 14:50:19 +0000, olcott said:
 
On 5/16/2024 5:48 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-15 15:24:57 +0000, olcott said:
...
typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function
00 int H(ptr x, ptr x);
01 int D(ptr x)
02 {
03   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
04   if (Halt_Status)
05     HERE: goto HERE;
06   return Halt_Status;
07 }
08
09 int main()
10 {
11   H(D,D);
12   return 0;
13 }
 Can you find any compiler that is liberal enough to accept that?
 
 It has been fully operational code under Windows and
Linux for two years.
 If your compiler does not reject that program it is not a conforming
C compiler. The semantics according to C standard is that a diagnostic
message must be given. The standard does not specify what happens if
you execute that program anyway.
 
 It is not nit picky syntax that is the issue here.
The SEMANTICS OF THE C PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE SPECIFIES
 No D simulated correctly by any H of every H/D pair specified
by the above template ever reaches its own line 06 and halts.
 The standard allows that an program is executed but does not
specify what happens when an invalid program is executed.
 You've cross-posted this to comp.lang.c after a long-running discussion
solely on comp.theory. Presumably you're doing that because you want
some discussion about what the standard says about this code. For the
sake of those of us who have not been following that discussion on
comp.theory, could you please identify what it is that you think renders
this code invalid? Offhand, I don't see anything wrong with it, but I'm
far more reliable when I say "I see an error" than when I say "I don't
see an error".
 
Fully operational software that runs under Widows and Linux
proves that the above is true EMPIRICALLY.
 No, it does not. As the program is not strictly comforming
and uses a non-standard extension some implementation may
execute it differently or refuse to execute.
 Which non-standard extension does it use?
 The main question is whether both arguments of H on the line 00 can have
the same name.
 That was a typo that I did not believe when told because so may people
continue to lie about the behavior of D correctly simulated by H.
 How does the D that is correctly simulated by H different from any
D that is incorrectly simulated by H nor not simulated by H?
 
 typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function
00 int H(ptr p, ptr i);
01 int D(ptr p)
02 {
03   int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
04   if (Halt_Status)
05     HERE: goto HERE;
06   return Halt_Status;
07 }
08
09 int main()
10 {
11   H(D,D);
12   return 0;
13 }
 In the above case a simulator is an x86 emulator that correctly
emulates at least one of the x86 instructions of D in the order
specified by the x86 instructions of D.
 This may include correctly emulating the x86 instructions of H
in the order specified by the x86 instructions of H thus calling
H(D,D) in recursive simulation.
 
 Which has been proven incorrect.
 *Quoted from page 4 of the paper linked below*
// Simplified Linz Ĥ (Linz:1990:319)
// Strachey(1965) CPL translated to C
void P(u32 x)
{
   if (H(x, x))HERE:
    goto HERE;
}
 int main()
{
   Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)P, (u32)P));
}
 That P is correctly simulated by H is proven by the fact that
every assembly language instruction of P is correctly simulated
by H in the order specified by the x86 assembly language of P
even when H correctly simulates itself simulating P.
 All of the details of this (except the 354 page execution
trace of H) are shown on pages 4-5 of the following paper.
 Which of course, will have the details of what H did wrong.
 
 *Halting problem undecidability and infinitely nested simulation*
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351947980_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation   
 So, which instruction CORRECTLY SIMULATED allows H to CORRECTLY DETERMINE that its input is non-halting?
 
 *This diverges from the point in the subject line*
*This diverges from the point in the subject line*
*This diverges from the point in the subject line*
 I cannot afford to tolerate the CHANGE-THE-SUBJECT REBUTTAL
that wasted 15 years of my life with Ben Bacarisse
The first posting with the current subject line diverged from
the topic of the subject line. Later messages don't seem to
diverge from the topics of that posting. And all topics of the
thread could be regarded as valid topics in spite of the chaged
subject line.
--
Mikko

Date Sujet#  Auteur
14 May 24 * Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###216Mikko
14 May 24 `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###215olcott
15 May 24  +- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Richard Damon
15 May 24  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###213Mikko
15 May 24   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###212olcott
15 May 24    +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###3joes
15 May 24    i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###2olcott
16 May 24    i `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Richard Damon
16 May 24    +- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Richard Damon
16 May 24    `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###207Mikko
16 May 24     `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###206olcott
16 May 24      +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###24Alan Mackenzie
16 May 24      i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###23olcott
17 May 24      i +- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Mikko
17 May 24      i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###21Alan Mackenzie
18 May 24      i  +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###19olcott
18 May 24      i  i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###18André G. Isaak
18 May 24      i  i +- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1olcott
18 May 24      i  i +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###12olcott
19 May 24      i  i i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###11André G. Isaak
19 May 24      i  i i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###10olcott
19 May 24      i  i i  +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###8immibis
19 May 24      i  i i  i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###7olcott
19 May 24      i  i i  i +- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Richard Damon
19 May 24      i  i i  i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###5immibis
19 May 24      i  i i  i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###4olcott
19 May 24      i  i i  i   +- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Richard Damon
20 May 24      i  i i  i   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###2immibis
20 May 24      i  i i  i    `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Mikko
19 May 24      i  i i  `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Richard Damon
18 May 24      i  i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###4olcott
18 May 24      i  i  +- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Richard Damon
18 May 24      i  i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###2Fred. Zwarts
18 May 24      i  i   `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1olcott
18 May 24      i  `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1olcott
17 May 24      +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###176Mikko
17 May 24      i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###175olcott
18 May 24      i +- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Richard Damon
18 May 24      i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###173Mikko
18 May 24      i  +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###65olcott
18 May 24      i  i+- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Richard Damon
19 May 24      i  i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###63DFS
19 May 24      i  i +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###8immibis
20 May 24      i  i i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###7Chris M. Thomasson
20 May 24      i  i i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###6Keith Thompson
20 May 24      i  i i  +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###3Chris M. Thomasson
20 May 24      i  i i  i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###2Keith Thompson
21 May 24      i  i i  i `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Chris M. Thomasson
20 May 24      i  i i  +- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1olcott
20 May 24      i  i i  `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Kenny McCormack
19 May 24      i  i +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###52olcott
19 May 24      i  i i+- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Chris M. Thomasson
19 May 24      i  i i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###50Richard Damon
19 May 24      i  i i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###49Chris M. Thomasson
20 May 24      i  i i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###48immibis
20 May 24      i  i i   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###47David Brown
20 May 24      i  i i    +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###4Kenny McCormack
20 May 24      i  i i    i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###3Alan Mackenzie
20 May 24      i  i i    i `* Topicality: Who really cares? (Was: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###)2Kenny McCormack
21 May 24      i  i i    i  `- Re: Topicality: Who really cares? (Was: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###)1David Brown
20 May 24      i  i i    +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###8Chris M. Thomasson
21 May 24      i  i i    i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###7David Brown
21 May 24      i  i i    i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###6James Kuyper
21 May 24      i  i i    i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###5David Brown
21 May 24      i  i i    i   +- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Chris M. Thomasson
21 May 24      i  i i    i   +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###2Keith Thompson
22 May 24      i  i i    i   i`- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1David Brown
24 May 24      i  i i    i   `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Chris M. Thomasson
21 May 24      i  i i    `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###34immibis
21 May 24      i  i i     +* Lying meets the standard of losing defamation cases2olcott
21 May 24      i  i i     i`- Re: Lying meets the standard of losing defamation cases1Richard Damon
21 May 24      i  i i     +* Lying meets the standard of losing defamation cases2olcott
21 May 24      i  i i     i`- Re: Lying meets the standard of losing defamation cases1Richard Damon
21 May 24      i  i i     +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###3Keith Thompson
21 May 24      i  i i     i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###2Kenny McCormack
21 May 24      i  i i     i `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1immibis
21 May 24      i  i i     +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###16David Brown
21 May 24      i  i i     i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###15James Kuyper
21 May 24      i  i i     i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###14immibis
21 May 24      i  i i     i  +- Thought control??? (Was: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###)1Kenny McCormack
22 May 24      i  i i     i  +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###8Richard Damon
22 May 24      i  i i     i  i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###7Keith Thompson
22 May 24      i  i i     i  i +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###3olcott
22 May 24      i  i i     i  i i+- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1immibis
22 May 24      i  i i     i  i i`- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Richard Damon
22 May 24      i  i i     i  i `* Policy dispute (Was: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###)3Kenny McCormack
22 May 24      i  i i     i  i  `* Re: Policy dispute (Was: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###)2immibis
22 May 24      i  i i     i  i   `- Re: Policy dispute (Was: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###)1Kenny McCormack
22 May 24      i  i i     i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###4James Kuyper
22 May 24      i  i i     i   +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###2Kenny McCormack
22 May 24      i  i i     i   i`- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Kaz Kylheku
22 May 24      i  i i     i   `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1David Brown
21 May 24      i  i i     `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###10Chris M. Thomasson
21 May 24      i  i i      +* Subway (Was: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###)2Kenny McCormack
21 May 24      i  i i      i`- Re: Subway (Was: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###)1Chris M. Thomasson
21 May 24      i  i i      `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###7Keith Thompson
21 May 24      i  i i       +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###3Chris M. Thomasson
21 May 24      i  i i       i+- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###1Chris M. Thomasson
21 May 24      i  i i       i`- Welcome! (Was: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###)1Kenny McCormack
22 May 24      i  i i       `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###3immibis
24 May 24      i  i i        `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###2James Kuyper
19 May 24      i  i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###2Chris M. Thomasson
18 May 24      i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###107James Kuyper
18 May 24      `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###5immibis

Haut de la page

Les messages affichés proviennent d'usenet.

NewsPortal