Re: Why do people here insist on denying these verified facts?

On 6/28/2024 4:06 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-06-27 19:42:21 +0000, olcott said:
 

On 6/27/2024 2:18 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-06-26 12:53:16 +0000, olcott said:
>

On 6/26/2024 2:54 AM, Mikko wrote:

>
Obviously false. The meaning of H(P,P) is determined by the text of H.
The meaning is fully determined by the complier that complies to the
x86 code and the semantics of x86. If one simulator interpretes the
x86 code differently from another simulator then one of them does not
follow the x86 semantics and is therefore incorrect.

>
_DDD()
[00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call H0(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
[00002182] 5d               pop ebp
[00002183] c3               ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>
The call from DDD to
the x86 emulator H0(DDD) at machine address 0000217a
when DDD is correctly emulated by H0 cannot possibly return.
>
When DDD is correctly emulated by H0 then H0 must emulate itself
emulating DDD. This derives recursive emulation.
>
When DDD is correctly emulated by H1 then H1 NEED NOT emulate itself
emulating DDD. This DOES NOT derive recursive emulation.

>
When DDD is emulated by H1 then H1 needs to the call to H0 and the
instructions of H0 which emulate DDD and its call to H0 and a recorsive
emulation follows. If H1 emulates correctly it must not emulate the
emulation of the instruction at 217f. Unless, of course, you lied
about H0.

>
You contradict yourself.

 You have not shown any self-contradiction in my words. There is no
obvious self-contradiction but maybe there is some less obvious
mistake.
 

*Here is what actually happens*
>
_DDD()
[00002172] 55         push ebp
[00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH0
[0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002182] 5d         pop ebp
[00002183] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>
_main()
[00002192] 55         push ebp
[00002193] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002195] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000219a] e863f3ffff call 00001502 ; call HHH1(DDD)
[0000219f] 83c404     add esp,+04
[000021a2] 50         push eax
[000021a3] 6843070000 push 00000743
[000021a8] e8b5e5ffff call 00000762
[000021ad] 83c408     add esp,+08
[000021b0] eb04       jmp 000021b6
[000021b2] 33c0       xor eax,eax
[000021b4] eb02       jmp 000021b8
[000021b6] 33c0       xor eax,eax
[000021b8] 5d         pop ebp
[000021b9] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0040) [000021b9]
>
  machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
  address   address   data      code       language
  ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
[00002192][00103826][00000000] 55         push ebp
[00002193][00103826][00000000] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002195][00103822][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000219a][0010381e][0000219f] e863f3ffff call 00001502 ; call HHH1(DDD)
New slave_stack at:1038ca
>
Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:1138d2
[00002172][001138c2][001138c6] 55         push ebp
[00002173][001138c2][001138c6] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002175][001138be][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a][001138ba][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH0(DDD)
New slave_stack at:14e2f2
>
Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:15e2fa
[00002172][0015e2ea][0015e2ee] 55         push ebp
[00002173][0015e2ea][0015e2ee] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002175][0015e2e6][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a][0015e2e2][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH0(DDD)
New slave_stack at:198d1a
[00002172][001a8d12][001a8d16] 55         push ebp
[00002173][001a8d12][001a8d16] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002175][001a8d0e][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a][001a8d0a][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH0(DDD)
Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
>
[0000217f][001138c2][001138c6] 83c404     add esp,+04   ; return to DDD
[00002182][001138c6][000015b7] 5d         pop ebp
[00002183][001138ca][0003a980] c3         ret           ; return to main
[0000219f][00103826][00000000] 83c404     add esp,+04
[000021a2][00103822][00000001] 50         push eax
[000021a3][0010381e][00000743] 6843070000 push 00000743
[000021a8][0010381e][00000743] e8b5e5ffff call 00000762
Input_Halts = 1
[000021ad][00103826][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
[000021b0][00103826][00000000] eb04       jmp 000021b6
[000021b6][00103826][00000000] 33c0       xor eax,eax
[000021b8][0010382a][00000018] 5d         pop ebp
[000021b9][0010382e][00000000] c3         ret
Number of Instructions Executed(352835) == 5266 Pages

 Is the program at 15d2 H0 or HHH0?
 

I have standardized the naming conventions.
H0 and HHH0 are now called HHH.
// HHH(DDD) and HHH1(DDD) are the standard names for DDD input
// DDD calls HHH(DDD). HHH1 is identical to HHH.
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer