Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?

Liste des GroupesRevenir à theory 
Sujet : Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 03. Jun 2024, 01:34:08
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <v3j320$2qu72$17@i2pn2.org>
References : 1
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 6/2/24 8:16 PM, immibis wrote:
The halting problem says you can't find a Turing machine that tells whether executing each other Turing machine will halt. Simulation has nothing to do with the question.
Because it looks like an out to solve the question. He doesn't actual seem to care about halting (which is why he is so ignorant about it) but cares about the fact that the Halting Theorem (or pulling the same sort of proof) can show so many other things can't be done in other fields.
There ARE some principles that allow the use of a certain type of simulation, that of the UTM which is defined to just recreate the behavior of the machined described, and a simple way to do that is to build a simulator. (UTMs are not actually defined by simulation, but by results).
Olcott, in his typical method of playing with things he doesn't really understand, things that by tweeking the rules on the simulation, he might be able to get something close enough to Halting and using a UTM, that he can sneek his bad proof by, trying to replace the UTM simulation forever to show non-halting to trying to invoke an "induction-like" infinte set of "related" machines to try to argue that his infinite set of  "correct" (but partial) simulation is just as good the one infinite simulation in showing non-halting.
Not how he needs to keep things a bit undefined to avoid making the scam to obvious, and blocking his shell game.
The key of the shell game is making an H that aborts simulating a machine using it, some how "equal" to a DIFFERN machine built on a DIFFERENT H that does simulate forever, and get stuck.
If he can make you think these to input are "the same" because they are based things with the same name and doing things sort of the in the same way, just one is finite and the other never halts, he can pull a switcher-roo and show that the input to his actual H, which does halt, can be argued to not-halt as it was ok to swap it with the other machine.
Ultimately, this comes down to his H needs to change its behavior when the "pathological machine" uses it, which is why his H^ uses an embedded_H instead of just a copy of H, so he can try to argue it could be different.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
3 Jun 24 * Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?332immibis
3 Jun 24 +- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?1Richard Damon
3 Jun 24 +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?309Mike Terry
3 Jun 24 i+* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review29olcott
3 Jun 24 ii+- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1Richard Damon
3 Jun 24 ii+- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1immibis
3 Jun 24 ii`* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review26Mike Terry
3 Jun 24 ii `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review25olcott
4 Jun 24 ii  +- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii  `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review23Mike Terry
4 Jun 24 ii   `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review22olcott
4 Jun 24 ii    `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review21Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii     `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review20olcott
4 Jun 24 ii      +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review13Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii      i`* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review12olcott
5 Jun 24 ii      i +- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1Richard Damon
5 Jun 24 ii      i `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review10Mikko
5 Jun 24 ii      i  `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review9olcott
5 Jun 24 ii      i   +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review2wij
5 Jun 24 ii      i   i`- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1olcott
6 Jun 24 ii      i   +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review5Mikko
6 Jun 24 ii      i   i`* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review4olcott
6 Jun 24 ii      i   i `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review3Mikko
6 Jun 24 ii      i   i  `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review2olcott
7 Jun 24 ii      i   i   `- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1Richard Damon
6 Jun 24 ii      i   `- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii      `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review6Mike Terry
4 Jun 24 ii       `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review5olcott
4 Jun 24 ii        +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review3Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii        i`* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review2olcott
5 Jun 24 ii        i `- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii        `- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1immibis
3 Jun 24 i`* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?279Ben Bacarisse
3 Jun 24 i +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review277olcott
3 Jun 24 i i+- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review1immibis
3 Jun 24 i i+* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review73Mikko
3 Jun 24 i ii`* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review72olcott
4 Jun 24 i ii +- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review1Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 i ii +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review2joes
4 Jun 24 i ii i`- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review1olcott
4 Jun 24 i ii +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review67Mikko
4 Jun 24 i ii i`* Halting Problem is wrong two different ways66olcott
4 Jun 24 i ii i +- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1immibis
5 Jun 24 i ii i +* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways41Richard Damon
5 Jun 24 i ii i i`* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways40olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i i +* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways21John Smith
5 Jun 24 i ii i i i`* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways20olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i i i +* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways4Richard Damon
5 Jun 24 i ii i i i i`* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways3Mikko
5 Jun 24 i ii i i i i `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways2olcott
6 Jun 24 i ii i i i i  `- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1Richard Damon
5 Jun 24 i ii i i i `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways15John Smith
5 Jun 24 i ii i i i  `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways14olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i i i   +* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways3John Smith
5 Jun 24 i ii i i i   i+- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i i i   i`- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1joes
5 Jun 24 i ii i i i   +* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways6joes
6 Jun 24 i ii i i i   i`* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways --very stupid5olcott
6 Jun 24 i ii i i i   i +- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways --very stupid1Richard Damon
6 Jun 24 i ii i i i   i `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways --very stupid3Mikko
6 Jun 24 i ii i i i   i  `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways --very stupid2olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i i i   i   `- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways --very stupid1Richard Damon
6 Jun 24 i ii i i i   +- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1Richard Damon
6 Jun 24 i ii i i i   `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways3Mikko
6 Jun 24 i ii i i i    `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways2olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i i i     `- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1Richard Damon
5 Jun 24 i ii i i +- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1Richard Damon
5 Jun 24 i ii i i `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways17Fred. Zwarts
5 Jun 24 i ii i i  `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways16olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i i   +* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways7Fred. Zwarts
6 Jun 24 i ii i i   i`* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways6olcott
6 Jun 24 i ii i i   i `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways5Fred. Zwarts
6 Jun 24 i ii i i   i  `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways4olcott
6 Jun 24 i ii i i   i   `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways3Fred. Zwarts
6 Jun 24 i ii i i   i    +- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1olcott
6 Jun 24 i ii i i   i    `- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1immibis
6 Jun 24 i ii i i   +- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1Richard Damon
6 Jun 24 i ii i i   `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways7Mikko
6 Jun 24 i ii i i    `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways6olcott
6 Jun 24 i ii i i     +* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways4Mikko
6 Jun 24 i ii i i     i`* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways3olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i i     i +- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1Richard Damon
7 Jun 24 i ii i i     i `- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1Mikko
7 Jun 24 i ii i i     `- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1Richard Damon
5 Jun 24 i ii i `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways23Mikko
5 Jun 24 i ii i  `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways22olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i   +- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1joes
6 Jun 24 i ii i   +- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1Richard Damon
6 Jun 24 i ii i   +* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways18Mikko
6 Jun 24 i ii i   i`* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways17olcott
6 Jun 24 i ii i   i `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways16Mikko
6 Jun 24 i ii i   i  `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways15olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i   i   `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways14Mikko
7 Jun 24 i ii i   i    `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways13olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i   i     +- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1Richard Damon
7 Jun 24 i ii i   i     +* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways8joes
8 Jun 24 i ii i   i     i`* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways7olcott
8 Jun 24 i ii i   i     i `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways6Mikko
8 Jun 24 i ii i   i     i  `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways5olcott
8 Jun 24 i ii i   i     i   +- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1Richard Damon
9 Jun 24 i ii i   i     i   `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways3Mikko
8 Jun 24 i ii i   i     `* Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways3Mikko
7 Jun 24 i ii i   `- Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways1immibis
4 Jun 24 i ii `- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review1immibis
3 Jun 24 i i+* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review201Fred. Zwarts
4 Jun 24 i i`- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review1Richard Damon
3 Jun 24 i `- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?1Mike Terry
3 Jun 24 +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?20Fred. Zwarts
3 Jun 24 `- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?1Mikko

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