Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works

Liste des GroupesRevenir à theory 
Sujet : Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works
De : mikko.levanto (at) *nospam* iki.fi (Mikko)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 13. Jun 2024, 08:17:44
Autres entêtes
Organisation : -
Message-ID : <v4e2u8$24lla$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
User-Agent : Unison/2.2
On 2024-06-12 17:00:44 +0000, olcott said:

On 6/12/2024 11:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-06-12 14:08:43 +0000, olcott said:
 
On 6/12/2024 8:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-06-12 12:44:55 +0000, olcott said:
 
On 6/12/2024 2:13 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-06-11 16:06:02 +0000, olcott said:
 
On 6/11/2024 2:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-06-10 14:43:34 +0000, olcott said:
 
On 6/10/2024 2:13 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-06-09 18:40:16 +0000, olcott said:
 
On 6/9/2024 1:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/9/24 2:13 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/9/2024 1:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/9/24 1:18 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/9/2024 10:36 AM, olcott wrote:
*This has direct application to undecidable decision problems*
 When we ask the question: What is a truthmaker? The generic answer is
whatever makes an expression of language true <is> its truthmaker. This
entails that if there is nothing in the universe that makes expression X
true then X lacks a truthmaker and is untrue.
 X may be untrue because X is false. In that case ~X has a truthmaker.
Now we have the means to unequivocally define truth-bearer. X is a
truth-bearer iff (if and only if) X or ~X has a truthmaker.
 I have been working in this same area as a non-academician for a few
years. I have only focused on expressions of language that are {true on
the basis of their meaning}.
 
 Now that truthmaker and truthbearer are fully anchored it is easy to see
that self-contradictory expressions are simply not truthbearers.
 “This sentence is not true” can't be true because that would make it
untrue and it can't be false because that would make it true.
 Within the the definition of truthmaker specified above: “this sentence
has no truthmaker” is simply not a truthbearer. It can't be true within
the above specified definition of truthmaker because this would make it
false. It can't be false because that makes
it true.
 
 Unless the system is inconsistent, in which case they can be.
 Note,
 When I specify the ultimate foundation of all truth then this
does apply to truth in logic, truth in math and truth in science.
 Nope. Not for Formal system, which have a specific definition of its truth-makers, unless you let your definition become trivial for Formal logic where a "truth-makers" is what has been defined to be the "truth-makers" for the system.
 
 Formal systems are free to define their own truthmakers.
When these definitions result in inconsistency they are
proved to be incorrect.
 A formal system can be inconsistent without being incorrect.
 *Three laws of logic apply to all propositions*
¬(p ∧ ¬p) Law of non-contradiction
  (p ∨ ¬p) Law of excluded middle
   p = p   Law of identity
*No it cannot*
 Those laws do not constrain formal systems. Each formal system specifies
its own laws, which include all or some or none of those. Besides, a the
word "proposition" need not be and often is not used in the specification
of a formal system.
 
 *This is the way that truth actually works*
 As far as is empirially known. But a formal system is not limited by
the limitations of our empirical knowledge.
 If there really is nothing anywhere that makes expression
of language X true then X is untrue.
 That does not restrict what a formal system can say.
 If a formal system says:
"cats <are> fifteen story office buildings"
this formal system is wrong.
 No, it is not. If you inteprete a sentence of that language
 *Correct interpretation is hardwired into the formal language*
{cats} and {office buildings} are specified by 128-bit GUIDs.
Both of those claims are false about typical formal systems.
--
Mikko

Date Sujet#  Auteur
9 Jun 24 * Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems80olcott
9 Jun 24 +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems72olcott
9 Jun 24 i`* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems71Richard Damon
9 Jun 24 i `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems70olcott
9 Jun 24 i  `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems69Richard Damon
9 Jun 24 i   `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems68olcott
9 Jun 24 i    +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems42Richard Damon
9 Jun 24 i    i`* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems41olcott
9 Jun 24 i    i +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems39Richard Damon
10 Jun 24 i    i i`* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems38olcott
10 Jun 24 i    i i +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems34Richard Damon
10 Jun 24 i    i i i`* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems33olcott
10 Jun 24 i    i i i `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems32Richard Damon
10 Jun 24 i    i i i  `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems31olcott
11 Jun 24 i    i i i   `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems30Richard Damon
11 Jun 24 i    i i i    `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems29olcott
12 Jun 24 i    i i i     `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems28Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i    i i i      `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems27olcott
12 Jun 24 i    i i i       `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems26Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i    i i i        `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems25olcott
12 Jun 24 i    i i i         `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems24Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i    i i i          `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems23olcott
12 Jun 24 i    i i i           `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems22Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i    i i i            `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems21olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i             `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems20Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i              `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems19olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i               `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems18Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems17olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                 `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems16Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                  `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems15olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                   `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems14Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                    `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems13olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                     `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems12Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                      `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems11olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                       `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems10Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                        `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems9olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                         `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems8Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                          `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems7olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                           `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems6Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                            `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems5olcott
14 Jun 24 i    i i i                             `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems4Richard Damon
14 Jun 24 i    i i i                              `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems3olcott
14 Jun 24 i    i i i                               `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems2Richard Damon
14 Jun 24 i    i i i                                `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems1olcott
10 Jun 24 i    i i `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems3Mikko
10 Jun 24 i    i i  `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems2olcott
11 Jun 24 i    i i   `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems1Mikko
10 Jun 24 i    i `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems1Richard Damon
10 Jun 24 i    `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems25Mikko
10 Jun 24 i     `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems24olcott
11 Jun 24 i      +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems22Mikko
11 Jun 24 i      i`* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works21olcott
12 Jun 24 i      i +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works9Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i      i i`* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works8olcott
12 Jun 24 i      i i `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works7Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i      i i  `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works6olcott
12 Jun 24 i      i i   `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works5Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i      i i    `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works4olcott
13 Jun 24 i      i i     `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works3Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i      i i      `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works2olcott
13 Jun 24 i      i i       `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works1Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i      i `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works11Mikko
12 Jun 24 i      i  `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works10olcott
12 Jun 24 i      i   `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works9Mikko
12 Jun 24 i      i    `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works8olcott
12 Jun 24 i      i     `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works7Mikko
12 Jun 24 i      i      `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works6olcott
13 Jun 24 i      i       `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works5Mikko
13 Jun 24 i      i        `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works4olcott
13 Jun 24 i      i         +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works2Mikko
13 Jun 24 i      i         i`- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works1olcott
14 Jun 24 i      i         `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works1Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i      `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems1Richard Damon
9 Jun 24 +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems2joes
9 Jun 24 i`- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems1olcott
9 Jun 24 `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems5Richard Damon
9 Jun 24  `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems4olcott
9 Jun 24   `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems3Richard Damon
9 Jun 24    `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems2olcott
9 Jun 24     `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems1Richard Damon

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