Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2

On 2024-06-16 12:44:41 +0000, olcott said:

On 6/16/2024 2:50 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-06-15 13:14:57 +0000, olcott said:
 

On 6/15/2024 7:19 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-06-15 03:07:14 +0000, olcott said:
 

On 6/13/2024 8:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 > On 6/13/24 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
 >>
 >> It is contingent upon you to show the exact steps of how H computes
 >> the mapping from the x86 machine language finite string input to
 >> H(D,D) using the finite string transformation rules specified by
 >> the semantics of the x86 programming language that reaches the
 >> behavior of the directly executed D(D)
 >>
 >
 > Why? I don't claim it can.
 _D()
[00000cfc](01) 55          push ebp
[00000cfd](02) 8bec        mov ebp,esp
[00000cff](03) 8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08]
[00000d02](01) 50          push eax       ; push D
[00000d03](03) 8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08]
[00000d06](01) 51          push ecx       ; push D
[00000d07](05) e800feffff  call 00000b0c  ; call H
[00000d0c](03) 83c408      add esp,+08
[00000d0f](02) 85c0        test eax,eax
[00000d11](02) 7404        jz 00000d17
[00000d13](02) 33c0        xor eax,eax
[00000d15](02) eb05        jmp 00000d1c
[00000d17](05) b801000000  mov eax,00000001
[00000d1c](01) 5d          pop ebp
[00000d1d](01) c3          ret
Size in bytes:(0034) [00000d1d]
 If there is no mapping from the input to H(D,D) to the behavior
of D(D) then H is not even being asked about the behavior of D(D).
H has no obligation to answer questions *THAT IT IS NOT BEING ASKED*

 The halting problem specification does not say that a halt decider
can be asked questions.

 *It assumes that you already know that*

 What assumes? Why would it assume anything about me?
 

In computability theory and computational complexity theory, a
decision problem is a computational problem that can be posed
as a yes–no question of the input values.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_problem

 That's true. But a decider cannot be asked a question.

 The input to a decider is isomorphic to a yes or no question.

What isomorphism would that be? Would it cover all yes-or-no questions?

Whenever a
decider is run it answers the question it is made to answer.

 Not necessarily.

If doesn't it is not a decider. If it does but not correctly it is
not a decider of the required kind.

Just because everyone falsely assumes that D
correctly simulated by H must have the same behavior as the
directly executed D(D) does not make this false assumption true.

The D correctly or otherwise simulated by H is the same D as
in the directly executed D(D). Direct execution simply means
that it is simulated by a simulator.

The
input to the decider is a part of the question but is not itself
a question.

 The combination of the input and the algorithm is the question.
H is only asked about the behavior of D correctly simulated by H
and is not asked about the behavior of the directly executed D(D).
 Just because everyone assumes that they must be the same does not
make this assumption correct.
 

However, every decision problem can be presented differently,
whithout posing a qeustion.

 That is incorrect.

Then show a decision problem that cannot be presented except
as a question.
--
Mikko