Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt

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Sujet : Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt
De : F.Zwarts (at) *nospam* HetNet.nl (Fred. Zwarts)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 12. Jul 2024, 21:36:16
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v6s43v$365ag$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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Op 12.jul.2024 om 16:51 schreef olcott:
On 7/12/2024 8:02 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 12.jul.2024 om 14:08 schreef olcott:
>
when 1 to ∞ steps of DDD are correctly emulated in
the infinite set of every HHH/DDD pair and no DDD
halts then we can say that DDD DOES NOT HALT.
>
If 1 to ∞ steps are simulated by HHH and none of these simulations is correct, then none of the simulations is correct.
*Vacuous "truth" is a form of deception*
 We stipulate that the only measure of a correct emulation is the
semantics of the x86 programming language.
 _DDD()
[00002163] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002164] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002166] 6863210000 push 00002163 ; push DDD
[0000216b] e853f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DDD)
[00002170] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002173] 5d         pop ebp
[00002174] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002174]
 When N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH according to the
semantics of the x86 language then N steps are emulated correctly.
But only those steps are simulated correctly. The steps that are skipped are not considered. So the simulation as a whole is incorrect.
Simulating only N steps of a program of N+1 steps makes the simulation incorrect, because it does not show the full behaviour, of the last step and the end of the program. The simulation does not process the full input that it is given.

 When we examine the infinite set of every HHH/DDD pair such that:
HHH₁ one step of DDD is correctly emulated by HHH.
But the simulation of further steps is skipped, making the simulation as a whole incorrect, because it does not show the full behaviour.

HHH₂ two steps of DDD are correctly emulated by HHH.
But the simulation of further steps is skipped, making the simulation as a whole incorrect, because it does not show the full behaviour.

HHH₃ three steps of DDD are correctly emulated by HHH.
But the simulation of further steps is skipped, making the simulation as a whole incorrect, because it does not show the full behaviour.

...
HHH∞ The emulation of DDD by HHH never stops running.
Which is also not a correct simulation, because it does not end.

 The above specifies the infinite set of every HHH/DDD pair
where 1 to infinity steps of DDD are correctly emulated by HHH.
and where the last step is skipped, which makes the whole simulation incorrect. So none of the instances of HHH in this set was able to do a correct simulation.

 No DDD instance of each HHH/DDD pair ever reaches past its
own machine address of 0000216b and halts.
Showing that the simulation of all instances is incorrect.

 Thus each HHH element of the above infinite set of HHH/DDD
pairs is necessarily correct to reject its DDD as non-halting.
 
No. None of these simulations is correct. Each HHH that aborts is shown to abort 1 step before the simulated HHH would reach its end. So, the abort was always premature and no conclusion about halting or non-halting is possible. For each of the HHH that abort, it makes no sense to dream of a HHH that does not abort, because that is not the one that this HHH is simulating.
Each of the HHH in this set only simulates itself, not another one of this set. Dreaming of another HHH in this set when simulating only itself, is irrelevant and does not make the simulation correct.
No matter how much you want to be it correct, or how many times you repeat that its is correct, it does not change the fact that none of these simulations is incorrect, because none of them is able to reach the end.
For each HHH in this set we see that HHH cannot possibly simulate itself correctly.
DDD has nothing to do with it. It is easy to eliminate DDD:
        int main() {
          return HHH(main);
        }
This has the same problem. This proves that the problem is not in DDD, but in HHH, which is required to halt, but it decides that HHH does not halt.
HHH is unable to decide about finite recursions.
void Finite_Recursion (int N) {
   if (N > 0) Finite_Recursion (N - 1);
}
It decides after N recursions that there is an infinite recursion, which is incorrect.
When it should decide about Finite_Recursion(5), the programmer starts to dream about an infinite set of Finite_Recursion(M), with M=0 to infinity, and decides that it must be an infinite recursion.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
7 Jul 24 * Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters133olcott
7 Jul 24 +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters3Richard Damon
9 Jul 24 i`* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters2olcott
10 Jul 24 i `- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters1Richard Damon
8 Jul 24 `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters129Mikko
8 Jul 24  `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters128olcott
9 Jul 24   +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters46Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i`* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees45olcott
9 Jul 24   i +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees40Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i`* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees39olcott
9 Jul 24   i i `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees38Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i  +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees12olcott
9 Jul 24   i i  i`* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees11Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i  i `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees10olcott
9 Jul 24   i i  i  `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees9Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i  i   `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees8olcott
9 Jul 24   i i  i    `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees to something different.7Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i  i     `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben proves that he agrees to my meanings6olcott
9 Jul 24   i i  i      `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben proves that he agrees to my meanings5Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i  i       `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben proves that he agrees to my meanings4olcott
9 Jul 24   i i  i        `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben proves that he agrees to my meanings3Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i  i         `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben proves that he agrees to my meanings2olcott
10 Jul 24   i i  i          `- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben proves that he agrees to my meanings1Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i  +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees15olcott
9 Jul 24   i i  i`* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees14Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i  i +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees4olcott
9 Jul 24   i i  i i`* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees3Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i  i i `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees2olcott
9 Jul 24   i i  i i  `- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees1Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i  i `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees9Mikko
9 Jul 24   i i  i  `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees8Richard Damon
10 Jul 24   i i  i   `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees7Mikko
10 Jul 24   i i  i    +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees2Richard Damon
11 Jul 24   i i  i    i`- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees1Mikko
10 Jul 24   i i  i    `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees4olcott
11 Jul 24   i i  i     +- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees1Richard Damon
11 Jul 24   i i  i     `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees2Mikko
11 Jul 24   i i  i      `- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees1olcott
9 Jul 24   i i  `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees (typo corrected)10olcott
9 Jul 24   i i   `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees (typo corrected)9Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i    `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees (typo corrected)8olcott
9 Jul 24   i i     `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees (typo corrected)7Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i      +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees (typo corrected)2olcott
9 Jul 24   i i      i`- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees (typo corrected)1Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i      `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees (typo corrected)4olcott
9 Jul 24   i i       `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees (typo corrected)3Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i i        `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees (typo corrected)2olcott
10 Jul 24   i i         `- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees (typo corrected)1Richard Damon
9 Jul 24   i `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees4Mikko
9 Jul 24   i  `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees3olcott
10 Jul 24   i   +- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees1Richard Damon
10 Jul 24   i   `- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- Ben agrees1Mikko
9 Jul 24   `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters81Mikko
9 Jul 24    `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters80olcott
9 Jul 24     +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters77Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul 24     i`* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters76olcott
9 Jul 24     i +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters74Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul 24     i i`* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters73olcott
9 Jul 24     i i +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters68Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul 24     i i i`* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters67olcott
9 Jul 24     i i i +- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters1joes
9 Jul 24     i i i +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters64Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul 24     i i i i+* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters61olcott
10 Jul 24     i i i ii+* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters31joes
10 Jul 24     i i i iii`* DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt30olcott
10 Jul 24     i i i iii `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt29joes
10 Jul 24     i i i iii  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt28olcott
11 Jul 24     i i i iii   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt27Richard Damon
11 Jul 24     i i i iii    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt26olcott
11 Jul 24     i i i iii     `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt, thinks olcott, but it does.25Richard Damon
11 Jul 24     i i i iii      `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt, thinks olcott, but it does.24olcott
11 Jul 24     i i i iii       `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt, thinks olcott, but it does.23Richard Damon
11 Jul 24     i i i iii        `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt22olcott
11 Jul 24     i i i iii         `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt21Richard Damon
11 Jul 24     i i i iii          `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt20olcott
12 Jul 24     i i i iii           `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt19Richard Damon
12 Jul 24     i i i iii            `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt18olcott
12 Jul 24     i i i iii             `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt17Richard Damon
12 Jul 24     i i i iii              `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt16olcott
12 Jul 24     i i i iii               +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt10joes
12 Jul 24     i i i iii               i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt9olcott
12 Jul 24     i i i iii               i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt4Fred. Zwarts
12 Jul 24     i i i iii               i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt3olcott
12 Jul 24     i i i iii               i i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt1Fred. Zwarts
13 Jul 24     i i i iii               i i `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt1Mikko
13 Jul 24     i i i iii               i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt1Richard Damon
14 Jul 24     i i i iii               i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt3joes
14 Jul 24     i i i iii               i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt2olcott
14 Jul 24     i i i iii               i   `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt1Richard Damon
12 Jul 24     i i i iii               `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt Because HHH that correctly simulates does not Halt5Richard Damon
12 Jul 24     i i i iii                `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt4olcott
12 Jul 24     i i i iii                 +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt1Fred. Zwarts
12 Jul 24     i i i iii                 +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly halt1joes
13 Jul 24     i i i iii                 `- Re: DDD correctly but partially emulated by HHH cannot possibly be seen to halt by HHH, but do halt1Richard Damon
10 Jul 24     i i i ii`* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters29Fred. Zwarts
10 Jul 24     i i i ii `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters28olcott
10 Jul 24     i i i ii  `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters27Fred. Zwarts
10 Jul 24     i i i ii   `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters26olcott
10 Jul 24     i i i ii    `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters25Fred. Zwarts
10 Jul 24     i i i ii     `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters24olcott
10 Jul 24     i i i ii      +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters3Fred. Zwarts
11 Jul 24     i i i ii      `* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters20Mikko
9 Jul 24     i i i i+- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters ---clarification1olcott
9 Jul 24     i i i i`- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters --- one more freaking time1olcott
10 Jul 24     i i i `- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters1Richard Damon
9 Jul 24     i i +* Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters3joes
10 Jul 24     i i `- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters1Richard Damon
10 Jul 24     i `- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters1Richard Damon
10 Jul 24     +- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters1Richard Damon
10 Jul 24     `- Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters1Mikko

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