Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ? --- Tautology

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Sujet : Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ? --- Tautology
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 13. Jul 2024, 20:45:03
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v6ulg0$3nmaa$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 7/13/2024 2:40 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/13/24 3:23 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/13/2024 2:10 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/13/24 2:53 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/13/2024 1:33 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/13/24 2:15 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/13/2024 12:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/13/24 12:48 PM, olcott wrote:
What is the correct halt status for an input to
a simulating termination analyzer that calls its
own termination analyzer?
>
typedef void (*ptr)();
int HHH(ptr P);
>
void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
}
>
int main()
{
   HHH(DDD);
}
>
>
Halting.
>
Since HHH defined to be a termination analyzer, by that definition it must return to its caller.
>
Since DDD has no inputs, its behavior isn't affected by any inputs, and thus DDD will halt for ALL input conditions, so
>
You are stupidly saying that Infinite_Loop() will halt because
it has no inputs.
>
>
Where did I say no input means halting?
>
I said that since DDD has no inputs, a Termination analyizer doesn't need to look over all inputs, as there are no inputs to affect it.
>
Maybe you forget that a Termination Analyzer is not the same thing as a Halt Decider.
>
A Halt Decider determines if the given program will halt for the given input, and needs to be given both (if the program takes an input).
>
A Termination Analyzer determines if a given program will halt for every possible input, and thus is only given the program, and not the input to test.
>
>
Note, for Infinite_Loop below, it IS possible for a simulator to detect a condition in a finite amount of time that an unbounded emulation would never halt, so can answer correctly non-halting.
>
The problem with trying to apply that to DDD is it isn't true, give the DDD that uses the HHH that tries to think it has determined it to never halt to a actual pure emulator (and thus DDD still calls that HHH that thinks it has determined that DDD will not halt and aborts its emulation and returns) then the pure emulatior will see that HHH make that decisioin and return to DDD which will return.
>
Thus HHH can never actually make that same conclusion. You logic is incorrrect as you presume the input changes with the emulator, but it actually doesn't, it changes with the emulator you have stated is the one that gives the correct answer, which you can't change in the middle of the problem.
>
void Infinite_Loop()
{
   HERE: goto HERE;
}
>
for HHH to be a correct termination analysizer it needs to return the value to indicate Halting.
>
Yes
>
And thus, it WILL return that value to the DDD that calls it, and that DDD will halt.
>
>
Your version
>
I am asking What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD)
that at least one element of every possible pure function
HHH can provide.
>
>
The only correct answer it is able to give is Halt.
>
>
Yet any input that must be aborted to prevent the non
termination of HHH necessarily specifies non-halting
behavior or it would never need to be aborted.
>
But the DDD that this HHH is given doesn't need to be aborted.
>
That is proven by HHH1(DDD).
>
>
That is not the same DDD instance and you know it.
That is the DDD after HHH has aborted its DDD.
>
My code shows HHH1 creating a process context and
HHH creating two more different contexts.
>
HHH1 depends on HHH aborting its own different DDD
for the DDD of HHH1 to halt.
>
 And you ignore the fundamental fact that ALL DDDs built on the same code in HHH will behave the same.
 
*You are just going to lie about this into perpetuity*
Any input that must be aborted to prevent the non
termination of HHH necessarily specifies non-halting
behavior or it would never need to be aborted.
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
13 Jul 24 * Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ?14Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 +* Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ?11olcott
13 Jul 24 i+* Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ?7Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 ii`* Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ? --- Tautology6olcott
13 Jul 24 ii `* Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ? --- Tautology5Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 ii  `* Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ? --- Tautology4olcott
13 Jul 24 ii   `* Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ? --- Tautology3Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 ii    `* Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ? --- Tautology2olcott
13 Jul 24 ii     `- Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ? --- Tautology1Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 i`* Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ?3Mikko
14 Jul 24 i `* Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ?2olcott
15 Jul 24 i  `- Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ?1Mikko
13 Jul 24 `* Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ?2olcott
13 Jul 24  `- Re: What is the correct halt status for HHH(DDD) ?1Richard Damon

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